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i haven't really seen it mentioned on this forum, is there any particular reason for this, does anyone think, because i play there all the time, and it as been mentioned to me on there that the cash games are tough is this true, because i mainly stick with my sng's but when i have played 50 no limit quite often the games have been really tight, but having said that i do see a lot of regulars who always seem to be winning -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 87 | From: england | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | jinxpalmer Member Member # 1083 Rate Member posted 07-20-2004 07:46 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The hardest part about paradise is extracting money out of the players there... I'm not saying they are tuff, but they aren't stupid. If you just sit there like a rock all day long, they'll know when u get the nuts.. SO change gears alot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 454 | From: Portsmouth | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged | Jeanie Member Member # 3411 Member Rated: posted 07-20-2004 08:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can be found frequently at the NL $25 and at times the $50 NL. I believe the limit games are much tougher than NL because once you hit 2/4 limit most pots are heads up after the flop and I would never want to play in a game that ridiculous. The tournaments there are incredibly soft and I think it has the best web design of any other poker site. [ 07-20-2004, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: JeanieJ ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3142 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | ride928 Member Member # 3454 Rate Member posted 07-20-2004 09:28 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can usually find me playing 5/10, 3/6 on paradise. The limit cash games are definately tough, but they are beatable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 174 | From: Toms River, NJ | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | jinxpalmer Member Member # 1083 Rate Member posted 07-20-2004 09:37 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heads up after preflop is what you want in a limit game.. At least I do.. But I like to play headsup limit games anyhow.. [ 07-20-2004, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: jinxpalmer ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 454 | From: Portsmouth | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged | louisb Member Member # 2305 Rate Member posted 07-20-2004 09:40 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I absolutely love their software and interface but they don't market themselves very well so the games above 1/2 are incredibly tight and aside from weekend nights it's difficult to find a table with more than 30% of the players seeing the flop. As a result I no longer play there. I haven't played any no-limit there so I can't comment on that, but bonuses aside for most players it seems to be very difficult to make much money there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 232 | From: Boston | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | Jeanie Member Member # 3411 Member Rated:

posted 07-20-2004 09:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heads up after preflop is what you want in a limit game.. At least I do.. But I like to play headsup limit games anyhow.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WOW, that's all I'm saying. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3142 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | two4flinching Member Member # 2534 Rate Member posted 07-20-2004 09:56 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's where I've been making my "living" for the past 6-7 months. The multi-table tournaments are SUPER soft, and there is a lot of money to be made in the $200 NL ring games. I actually find the $200 games much easier than the $50 and $100. There is a $44 private tournament each night at like 1 AM, which I play 3-4 times a week. That one is a blast, because it's never very many people. My 2 wins in that one were $504 and $512, so it's pretty fun. As I said, the multi-tables are the best on there. There will never be one where first prize is $60K or whatever like in the Party Poker and Poker Stars weekend tournaments, but I don't mind that too much. It's too bad they changed the $30K guaranteed nightly to a $35K guaranteed re-buy tourney though. I'm not much of a rebuy tournament player. The $10/$20 through $20/$40 games are fun, but the $40/$80 game is A BITCH. Some VERY good players are in that game daily. I'll only play it if I'm hitting cards. Otherwise, the $20/$40 is my home. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 397 | From: Orlando, FL, USA | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | Kighr Member Member # 1946 Member Rated: posted 07-20-2004 09:56 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Currently Paradise is the main site I have been playing at. I love the software and the MTTs and that is my main deciding factor when choosing a poker site right now. I am thinking about trying UltimateBet soon, but the short time I looked at their software, I wasn't a big fan. Since poker is only a hobby for me, and I don't focus much on my income from it, I don't mind the very tight games...I actually prefer them because they anger me less often with bad beats. [ 07-20-2004, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Kighr ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 57 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 07-21-2004 12:24 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paradise is not an easy money site but I enjoy playing there (my favorite along with UB). The players are tough even at relatively low limits...which is good if you are looking for higher limit practice for a cheap price. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2213 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Cincod Member Member # 1814 Rate Member posted 07-21-2004 02:24 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- by far the best interface (and the best food). Tough players. I used to do well but tilting very quickly. It was the first site I ever played on. I might try it again cause the multi's are great. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 585 | From: vancouver | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged | feverpa Member Member # 3217 Rate Member posted 07-21-2004 10:40 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I used to swear by Paradise... It was the first and only sight I played real money on for a long time... I moved to Royal vegas just for the nice sign up bonus... and haven't been back... not because I don't love Paradise... I agree with all the stuff said here about the great interface... and the great tournaments... (I became a regular i

n the nightly sun tournament...) but the money is easier at Royal Vegas... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 997 | From: sitting next to Jesus in the Fridge | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | SoxSexSax Member Member # 3981 Member Rated: posted 07-21-2004 11:32 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I exclusively play at paradise. It has the best UI of all, IMHO. The crazy myth that paradise players are somehow better than players on other sites is (I assure you) wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 255 | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | MegaOutZ Member Member # 2647 Rate Member posted 07-21-2004 11:35 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- but the money is easier at Royal Vegas... Wow, easier than party poker? And what kind of sign up bonus do they offer? I love paradise too, everything a online site should be but damn is a tough place to make money if you are above average player. Sometime their .50/1 play like the 15/30 at party. I only play if condition is favorable otherwise, I settle on party and maybe tryout royal vegas. ps. The people who complaint about not beating the low limit because of all the idiots that play at party should give paradise a try but be warn!! You might become their fish. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 330 | From: edmonton | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | CTBob Member Member # 2546 posted 07-21-2004 11:52 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I play there about 90% of the time. I play $10NL and $25NL, and the $5 SNG's and a few multi table tournaments. The players at the lower stakes NL are bad, but not utterly insane. There are also some decent players there too, so I think it makes for a good game. The NL games are certainly beatable, I have been averaging about $100/month playing .10BB NL. I really like the software interface there. I have a dial-up connection and I have relatively few problems playing. I also play some 7-card stud at Paradise. The .01/.02 stud game is pretty much a joke since no one folds, but I have actually made about $5 in one session when I was catching hot cards. I moved up to the .5/$1 games, and you would think you are playing $50/$100 for chirst's sake. There are some fish, but mostly those games are honeymoon tight. Most pots are heads up or three way by fourth street. If you like other games, Paradise also has 5 card draw,5 card stud, and Crazy Pineapple. Paradise was the first site I ever played at. When I first decided to play online, I actually tried to download the Party software first. I was familiar with them from all their advertising. I had trouble downloading the software, and since I'm impatient, I said, fuck it, and moved on to downloading the Paradise software. I opened a play money account at UB, but I wasn't really impressed with that site. I haven't back. I also play at Poker Stars because they have .01/.02 PL Omaha. I actually like the PS tournaments better than Paradise. I like the 2 table SNG's and the fact that they have 7-stud tournaments. They also offer stud and PLO-hi SNG's. Paraidse only offers those in hi/lo forms. I have frequent disconnect problems at PS. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2613 | From: Ansonia,CT,USA | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 07-21-2004 02:49 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by SoxSexSax: The crazy myth that paradise players are somehow better than players on other sites is (I assure you) wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I Disagree. I have played at a lot of online sites and the players at Paradise are some of the best you will find at any limit. Let's put it this way, in the card room, I usually play a 5/10 full kill game with very loose agressive players. This means most pots are played at 10/20. The .5/1 limit HE game at Paradise is tougher than my street game. To Bob's point, I like Paradise's .5/1 Stud game as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2213 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged |

lockett Member Member # 4067 Rate Member posted 07-21-2004 06:59 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by two4flinching: That's where I've been making my "living" for the past 6-7 months. The multi-table tournaments are SUPER soft, and there is a lot of money to be made in the $200 NL ring games. I actually find the $200 games much easier than the $50 and $100. There is a $44 private tournament each night at like 1 AM, which I play 3-4 times a week. That one is a blast, because it's never very many people. My 2 wins in that one were $504 and $512, so it's pretty fun. As I said, the multi-tables are the best on there. There will never be one where first prize is $60K or whatever like in the Party Poker and Poker Stars weekend tournaments, but I don't mind that too much. It's too bad they changed the $30K guaranteed nightly to a $35K guaranteed re-buy tourney though. I'm not much of a rebuy tournament player. The $10/$20 through $20/$40 games are fun, but the $40/$80 game is A BITCH. Some VERY good players are in that game daily. I'll only play it if I'm hitting cards. Otherwise, the $20/$40 is my home. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i agree with you there fella about those $200 nl ring games i played in them a couple of times, and found them to be really different to the $50 ones, i was sat in a 50 one for about 5 hours and hardly made a penny, tried the 200 one and trebled up after a couple of hours -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 87 | From: england | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | SoxSexSax Member Member # 3981 Member Rated: posted 07-21-2004 10:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by NIN: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by SoxSexSax: The crazy myth that paradise players are somehow better than players on other sites is (I assure you) wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I Disagree. I have played at a lot of online sites and the players at Paradise are some of the best you will find at any limit. Let's put it this way, in the card room, I usually play a 5/10 full kill game with very loose agressive players. This means most pots are played at 10/20. The .5/1 limit HE game at Paradise is tougher than my street game. To Bob's point, I like Paradise's .5/1 Stud game as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I play mainly 20+2 or 30+3 SNGs, and I can GUARANTEE you that there are plenty of morons playing in them. PLENTY. Take my word or not, as you will. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 255 | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 07-21-2004 10:39 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I play mainly 20+2 or 30+3 SNGs, and I can GUARANTEE you that there are plenty of morons playing in them. PLENTY. Take my word or not, as you will. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't say there weren't morons . Anyway, I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. I normally don't play SNGs so I can't speak to them. I exclusively play NL Hold'Em Sit 'n Go tournaments on Paradise, and for the past couple of months I have made a regular profit (a profit that averages at about $50 a day or so). I recently posted a summary of my last weeks winnings to show that SNG's can be profitable if played right, and I had a few requests for tips and pointers for winning SNG tournaments. So here is my humble offering which I present to the forum for criticism and analysis. The following is the strategy I employ to win NL Hold'Em SNG tournaments on Paradise. I offer it merely for discussion and as a guide to any player new to SNG's who needs a strategy. Obviously I make absolutely no guarantee that you will become a winning player using this advice, but let it be said that in the three $30 + 3 SNG's I have played today I finished third, first and first respectively using the exact tactics specified below...so I know they work, for me at least. In the first 3/4 blind levels, play as tight as a camel's ass in a sandstorm. I normally limit myself to AA - 99, AK and AQs until the fifth blind level...and I've been known to fold all of them except AA pre-flop to a large raise.

This is common knowledge but it doesn't harm to restate it: all of the powerful starting hands play best heads up. 1 v 1. Therefore, when you have one of them, be sure to raise heftily (at least 4 x BB, especially at lower levels) to eliminate the field. The fewer hands that call, the fewer hands left to beat yours. If you raise pre-flop, bet the flop, even if you miss it. If it looks really, really nasty then, OK, check, but 9 times out of 10, if you raise it pre-flop, you should bet on the flop. And when you bet the flop, don't make it a feeble little BB sized bet. If the pot isn't that big, bet its size. If it is big, bet half. Be prepared to fold to a re-raise, or check-fold on the turn if your opponent calls though. Fold to large bets if you are less than 90% sure you have the best hand. It's better to be still in and short-stacked if you were actually winning than to call and be eliminated if you are wrong. Loosen up when half the field is gone or at the fifth blind level, whichever comes first. Play all the low pocket pairs as cheaply as you can (don't call huge bets with them), and bet hard if the flop comes down all lower than your pair, or if you hit a set. Play no-gap suited connectors (e.g. 78 hearts, 10J spades) if you can cheaply, but don't fall in love with them if you hit only one pair. Weaker hands such as these play better when you have a lot of opponents (you hit them less often, so you want more players to pay you when you do) so don't raise your marginal hands too aggressively. Be patient. 9 times out of 10 a hand will come along for you to make your move with. Don't get panicky and move all in with A5o or Q10s until you have less than 5 times the big blind. Wait for the right moment. Speaking of A5o...Don't love your Aces! I cannot stress this enough. In a SNG, until you get 3 handed, an A with a 9 or lower is garbage...very dangerous garbage as well considering how tempting it is to call along on the A high flop. If the weak A is suited, it's OK to limp for the price of the BB...but remember that you're looking for a flush, not an A on board. And if you really cannot follow this advice and tighten your game up enough to not need to play weak aces, for the love of money, only play them from late position! Calling with AX in the small blind, big blind or UTG is one of the most dangerous plays you can make in a SNG. When the game gets three handed (or 4 handed if the blinds are already very high) it's time to play as loose as you dare without being reckless. Any two cards 10 or above can be raised the minimum (provided you can still afford to fold if the tallest stack decides to go all-in over you). Try and steal the blinds if you have a K or an A. Pre-flop at this stage of the tournament, you have two options: raise or fold. I never call at this stage of a tournament...if a hand's worth playing its worth playing for a raise, if not I fold. At heads up, luck does play a huge factor. I personally like to get my money in pre-flop...and I will do it with any pocket pair, any A or K or two cards 10 or above. (I am more cautious about calling all in however...I might fold a weak K to an all-in bet, and maybe a weak A if I feel the player is really tight). I believe that if you follow the advice above but have the poker intelligence and sense to adapt or bend the rules when neccessary, this strategy will make you money. The difference between a winning player and a losing player, IMHO, is knowing when to break the rules, and when to follow them to the letter. [ 07-28-2004, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: SoxSexSax ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 255 | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | TheMaster Member Member # 3331 Rate Member posted 07-29-2004 02:24 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not that it really matters, you play pretty much by the books, but what is your reasoning in letting everyone know how and what you play? i mean its not like people are going to pick up on you now and your going to start losing but i feel that you should keep what all you said to yourself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 656 | From: ohio | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | blah Junior Member Member # 4692 Rate Member posted 07-29-2004 02:50 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the post, 1 question though. Do you usually play single or multi table s&g's? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 4 | From: texas | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged | SoxSexSax Member Member # 3981 Member Rated: posted 07-29-2004 03:14 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not that it really matters, you play pretty much by the books, but what is your reasoning in letting everyone know how and what you play? i mean its not like people are going to pick up on you now and your going to start losing but i feel that you should keep what all you said to yourself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have no problem teaching my methods to anyone who wants to learn. I myself learnt much of my game from articles posted by other players online. Trust me, enough people won't want to learn for me to still make plenty of profit.

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the post, 1 question though. Do you usually play single or multi table s&g's? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always single table, ten handed SNGs (I play on Paradise and that's all they have...although I probably wouldn't play 3 table SNGs anyway, even if they were available.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 255 | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | jmw44 Junior Member Member # 4206 Rate Member posted 07-29-2004 11:33 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for posting your strategy. I am mostly a limit player, but just for some fun I have started playing $5 SNG at UB. So far, very little luck. The strategy I have been using is quite different from yours, especially in the early stages. I figured that since the blinds start out so low ($10), that I would limp in with any decent hand, hoping to hit the flop. I thought I read on a post somewhere that this strategy could work because of the high implied odds on post flop play. Anyway, I haven't had much luck with it. Maybe I will give your strategy a try ... I have nothing to loose. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 10 | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged | Poker Champ Member Member # 1949 Member Rated: posted 07-29-2004 12:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for posting your strategy. I am mostly a limit player, but just for some fun I have started playing $5 SNG at UB. So far, very little luck. The strategy I have been using is quite different from yours, especially in the early stages. I figured that since the blinds start out so low ($10), that I would limp in with any decent hand, hoping to hit the flop. I thought I read on a post somewhere that this strategy could work because of the high implied odds on post flop play. Anyway, I haven't had much luck with it. Maybe I will give your strategy a try ... I have nothing to loose -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have to really know what your doing to play a lot of hands. The main problem with playing a lot of hands is that you can catch something really good but someobody floppped something better and it costs you all your money. I was in the BB with K 9s the other day flopped two pair and lost a bunch of money because another player had limped in with K K. K 9s isn't normally a hand I'll play out of the blind but this gives you an example of what can happen. The object at the beggining of the tournament is just to survive. Let the other players play a lot of hand just because it is "cheap" to play them. I'm a little loser at the start of a tourney than SoxSaxSex is but I'm still pretty tight. I'll only see the flop at most 25% of the time while not in a blind. Most people that play SNG's do have their strategy completely different. Lose at the start and tight when the blinds go up. Aggresive players can really take advantage of this because there is more money in the pot before the flop and it makes it worth your time to steal the blinds. If I have a lot decent stack and were down to 4 players this is where I usually make my move to win the whole tournament. Short stacks main concern at this point is just getting into the money and they'll normally fold to pre flop raises here so I take advantage of their extremely tight play at this stage of the tourney. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 730 | From: www.pokerall-in.com | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | Pat-the-cat Member Member # 4267 Rate Member posted 07-29-2004 12:13 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- im allways all in in the first three hands to make people not push me around [ 07-29-2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Pat-the-cat ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 47 | From: poker | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged | CowboyRob Member Member # 3758

Member Rated: posted 07-29-2004 01:07 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by TheMaster: not that it really matters, you play pretty much by the books, but what is your reasoning in letting everyone know how and what you play? i mean its not like people are going to pick up on you now and your going to start losing but i feel that you should keep what all you said to yourself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you just here to take and not give anything back? As far as sharing information. With 1000's playing on line if I can teach the few that come here to learn some of my technics that work for me I am more then happy to do so. Kowboy [ 07-29-2004, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: CowboyRob ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 579 | From: Texas | Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged | Bruce C. Member Member # 3276 Member Rated: posted 07-29-2004 01:10 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's pretty much the blueprint for a tight aggressive player in a SNG, but I like to fish around a little when the blinds are low, so I can get a read on opponents for when it really matters. I don't mind going slightly short in the early phase if I get information that I can use later. Also, you can create a nice, fishy image, which will get you the action you want when you flop something sweet. I think most of my best results in SNG's are come-from-behind, for that very reason One exception to your raise or fold rule: if you are at 4 or 5 and you have a comfortable chip lead, nothing wrong with limping in and playing the shorter stacked blinds from position with just about anything half decent. My thinking is, you can steal a blind on the flop as well as preflop, and preflop blind stealing can get expensive if an aggressive opponent plays back at you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2734 | From: Illinois | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | CTBob Member Member # 2546 posted 07-29-2004 01:30 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the first two blind levels, loosening up a bit is okay, especially if it is a limt tournament. As long as you can play well post-flop. What happens in the first couple of blind levels doesn't have much bearing on the outcome of the tournament. With such huge implied odds, you can get lucky and build a big stack early. However, never push small edges here. Don't try to steal blinds. If I play anything but premimium hands or big pocket pairs, it's always with position. If I'm entering a pot from EP, I will limp with TT,and JJ,AQ, and usually even AK, but will raise with AA,KK, and QQ. I have also learned that early on there is only one hand you ever want to get all in with pre-flop-AA. There have been plenty of times I pushed in the first two levels and got called by shit like AQ or even AT and got broke. People who call with this garbage are just idiots who are playing lottery poker. It's better not to give them chips and just let them self-destruct. Remember too, that you need a better hand to call a raise with than you need to raise with yourself. As the blinds get to 30/60 and above, it's time to start stealing and loosening up your pre-flop requirements. I don't do a lot of limping here. If I enter a pot, it's almost always for a raise. The idiots will be busting out quickly, and the good players will be looking to survive, so you have a better chance to steal blinds. The value of connectors and gap cards goes to alomst zero here (except in certain steal situations). If you are short handed, you want to raise it up with hands that have a good chance of winning the pot unimproved, or by making top pair, not drawing hands. Finally, if your stack is 10XBB or less, just go all-in with any hand you have played anyway unless there has already been a raise in front of you. Then you need to be holding AA,KK, or if you are really short stacked AK too. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2626 | From: Ansonia,CT,USA | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | CTBob Member Member # 2546 posted 07-29-2004 01:33 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Bruce C.: That's pretty much the blueprint for a tight aggressive player in a SNG, but I like to fish around a little when the blinds are low, so I can get a read on opponents for when it really matters. I don't mind going slightly short in the early phase if I get information that I can use later. Also, you can create a nice, fishy image, which will get you the action you want when you flop something sweet. I think most of my best results in SNG's are come-from-behind, for that very reason

One exception to your raise or fold rule: if you are at 4 or 5 and you have a comfortable chip lead, nothing wrong with limping in and playing the shorter stacked blinds from position with just about anything half decent. My thinking is, you can steal a blind on the flop as well as preflop, and preflop blind stealing can get expensive if an aggressive opponent plays back at you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your fishy image will get your big hands paid off, but a tight strategy has benefits too. If you create a tight image, you will be able to steal more pots. Your opponents will give you credit for actually having a hand, but little do they know you are popping them with seven deuce. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2626 | From: Ansonia,CT,USA | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | ace11x23 Member Member # 4187 Rate Member posted 07-29-2004 01:40 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have used pretty much this strategy in the sit n go's at the pokerstars and I consistently make a profit. It does work for me too...although sometimes I tend to get a little looser in the late positions where I'll see the flop with A 9 and I just about always see the flop with Ax suited long as its cheap enough...but the strategy is pretty similar. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 117 | From: Detroit | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | wickedlies Junior Member Member # 3990 Member Rated: posted 07-29-2004 02:04 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I amend the above strategy only slightly and it works for me. When I play this way, I am about 80% to make it to the money. Some things I have noticed; Every SNG is different...I have seen really loose tables and really tight tables. I adjust accordingly. You will always have at least one knucklehead. This is the guy that goes all in on the first hand or makes huge raises...bullies the pot...or just calls insanely and gets stuff on the turn and river that he does not deserve. Usually these types are gone fairly quick but sometimes they catch some cards and end up with a huge stack. Don't worry, I have never seen someone like this win. They lose the stack in front of them as quick as they won it. All I do is stay out of their way unless I am certain my hand beats theirs and then I take them down. While I do play very similiar to the above mentioned, I will sometimes throw out some bluffs or limp in with marginal hands. I do this for three reasons 1) maybe I catch the best hand 2) I want to get information on my opponents 3)I do not want to be too predictable...if I play a crap hand and I lose or win (does not matter if it costs little) then now people may have me pegged as a fish or easy mark. All in all I find the SNGs I play to be fairly easy to get to the money rounds. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 16 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | Twinsfan Member Member # 4037 Rate Member posted 07-29-2004 07:05 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think part of your strategy at a sit n go depends on the stakes. I usually play at the $10+1 tables, and I like to double up in the early rounds. The reason is that at these low of stakes, there are usually at least 2-3 poor players who practically throw their money away. I like to be the one who wins it, rather than some other smarter player who I'll have more trouble getting the chips from later on. I know this means that sometimes I'll get knocked out early, but if I play smart and make sure I have the best hand, 80% of the time I can double up. Once I have enough chips, it's much easier to make the money, and go on to win the tournament. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 114 | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | brains Member Member # 2055 Member Rated: posted 07-29-2004 09:15 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very good thread SSS. I would play very similar to this in SnGs, playing nearly as tight early- except I would occasionally limp with small pocket pairs in late position if I get opportunity, I find you can really do some damage with these if you hit your set and are generally easy to play after the flop. I would also add that, when play gets down to 4 (sometimes even at 5), most players are trying to ensure they make the money, you can really take advantage of this fact and steal pots of these players, I always put in my head that only top 2 get paid and play very aggressive at this point, however, you need to be wary of short stacks and big chip leads as they will be more willing to take you on. (if there is a really short stack at the table who is about to get knocked out I would not play as aggressive at this point) --------

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posts: 381 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | BLMike Member Member # 2118 Rate Member posted 07-29-2004 10:06 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SoxSexSax -- Thanks for the info. Although I am a solid ring game and limit tourney player, I have been terrible in NL. I hate to admit that I haven't spent a lot of time trying to learn the right way to play the game, but using your approach, I was in the money 2 out of 2 times tonight. Thanks for sharing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 141 | From: NJ USA | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged | SoxSexSax Member Member # 3981 Member Rated: posted 07-30-2004 01:22 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One exception to your raise or fold rule: if you are at 4 or 5 and you have a comfortable chip lead, nothing wrong with limping in and playing the shorter stacked blinds from position with just about anything half decent. My thinking is, you can steal a blind on the flop as well as preflop, and preflop blind stealing can get expensive if an aggressive opponent plays back at you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have two concerns with this approach: 1) If you have a weakish A (a hand I would imagine counts in your definition of anything half decent) in position and the shortstacked BB has 86, a raise will make him fold, so when the flop comes A86 he's not there to double up at your expense (because we all know how hard the weak ace is to put down when the flop looks promising.) A call here allows a crafty player to check-raise you on the flop, as he knows that if its checked to you, you're gonna bet. 2) If I'm in the big blind, 5 handed and shortstacked and it's been called around to me, I'll consider pushing all-in with anything...hands that I wouldn't call a raise with. Are you going to call for even 20% of your stack to see if your marginal hand is winning against an All-In from the BB? Didn't think so. There's a BB sized bet you'll never see again. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SoxSexSax -- Thanks for the info. Although I am a solid ring game and limit tourney player, I have been terrible in NL. I hate to admit that I haven't spent a lot of time trying to learn the right way to play the game, but using your approach, I was in the money 2 out of 2 times tonight. Thanks for sharing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now I feel saintly. Hallelujah(sp?)! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 255 | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | billbarl Member Member # 2090 Rate Member posted 07-30-2004 10:18 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the post - I've had success in live tournaments with the same basic strategy, but never took the time and effort to write it down. As I'm sure you're aware, there is no single formula that works all the time. What you've provided is 80% of a winning strategy. The other 20% is what separates us from the pros and superstars. That's the 20% that forum posters will debate and discuss forever. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 53 | From: Green Bay, WI | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | ace11x23 Member Member # 4187 Rate Member posted 07-30-2004 10:35 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well guys the secrets out maybe we need to change our strategy a little now...lol -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 117 | From: Detroit | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | Bruce C. Member Member # 3276 Member Rated: posted 07-30-2004 11:32 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You make a good point, Sox, but my scenario assumes that a good player in that position will know when to get away from a hand.

As chip leader I want to create action cheap. I don't want the short stacks to clean up on each other and get to my level. When it gets down to 3, I don't want it to be close because anything can happen. Since I'm the only one who can cause that to happen, I will try if I can. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2734 | From: Illinois | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | GarySJFL Moderator Member # 1342 Member Rated: posted 07-30-2004 08:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I may chime in on the loose vs tight debate... I think you need to play the right hands for the situation you're in. It's not just a matter of being loose or tight. In the first two levels, the blinds are cheap, and you see a lot of limping. So I'll play a lot of hands, BUT ONLY hands that play well multiway. I'm going to limp with 65s but fold ATo on the first level. I'm even experimenting with an "any two cards on the button in an unraised pot" strategy for small SNGs. It's teaching me how to win hands with just my position. And it's hilarious to watch the table have an apoplexy when I flop two pair with 94o. After three or four levels have passed and a few people have busted out, I do the opposite: I value hands that play better heads-up, like the ATo. My hand selection also becomes an function of how easily I think I can steal blinds with a raise, since that tactic comes into the picture at this point. So I don't necessarily play loose early and tight later. Early I play hands if I can flop a big hand cheap, or if I can use my position. Later I play if I've got a good heads-up hand, or if I think I can steal -- the latter of which may have nothing to do with the cards I hold.
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