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Is it possible then to make an actual living from playing on-line poker from the comforyt of your own home? If i was to try what advice could you give? What site would be best? What are the minimum limits at which to play to make decent money? What bankroll is needed? WTF am i thinking, is it gonna be worth it? The reason i ask is that i am considering selling my small business and playing cards to try and live, bearing in mind i have a family to support that includes my 4 kids the oldest is 7. I think i'll be able to put money aside to last us maybe 2 years and use a few thousnad as my bankroll to give it a shot. I was thinking basically of playing $3/$6 or even $2/$4 as the games are fast and furios compared to live games so the earning should be inline with that right? The minimum wage here is about $7 per hour but i would like around $15 to $20 per hour to feel comfortable and beable to advance higher as time goes on. So what's the best advice, on things like hours to play, when to walk away, should i walk away after my set hours when i'm on a roll, should i slug it out for my hours when on tilt, when do i switch off ect. Any help would be much appreciated as i am serious about trying this and know that the most valuable information i will get is from here.

Thanks !! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | incoherentb Member Member # 3385 posted 05-02-2004 11:28 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- if you dont know the answers to any of these questions already then you should definatly not sell your business any time soon. i bet theres only like 1-2% of people who play online that actually can make a living out of it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 122 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-02-2004 11:41 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know my own answers to these questions mate ! I wanted the more experienced forum members views, I make a profit now but play sng's a fair bit which puts in a lot of time for little profit, so am only going to play ring games for the total time i play. I also tend to waste a lot of my winning in on-line casino's whilst a bit bored, which will obviously come to an end as the money will be of more significance now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | MarkyMark Member Member # 2140 Rate Member posted 05-02-2004 11:57 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- if you´re wasting your money in on-line casinos out of pure boredom, you either have enough money or you show a lack of discipline, in which case you will go broke when trying to play poker for a living. and reading your other posts, I think you have a problem with facing reality as it is, sorry to be that brutal. cheers, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 559 | From: Frankfurt, Germany | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-02-2004 12:02 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No problem m8, i'll keep you informed when i make my decision ! lol The point is I do have enough money at present with the way things are, but want to change the way things are, thats why i asked the question. Anyway i did ask for advice not criticism, if i'm not upto it then thats better for you as you may we'll take my money, and if i go broke i go to work ! [ 05-02-2004, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: aplayer ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 05-02-2004 12:12 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- aplayer - I'll give the same opinion here that I gave to SuperBrawl...be VERY careful. You have 4 kids to support and your thinking about making a living at 3/6...that is insane in my opinion. I know that Angel started out playing pro at 3/6 but I believe he was single at the time. Also, I really don't think making more than 2-3 BB/hr is possible. So, even if you are a disciplined top of the line player, you're only looking at $18/hr to start. I couldn't support a family on this but I guess that depends on economic circumstances. And yes, I know you will have 2 yrs living expenses saved up. That will go quickly. Best of luck if you go for it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2197 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member

Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-02-2004 12:17 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks nin, yeah where i'm from in Cumbria , England it is pretty cheap to live. But guess we'll have to tighten the belt a bit. The reason i chose those limits are as i beleive the players are weaker there and my chances are improved, don't relly want to run into trouble at higher stakes and be broke without getting the chance to try ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Acevader Member Member # 3464 Member Rated: posted 05-02-2004 12:52 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The UK is not cheap to live in compared to the US where most people on this forum are from. I started a thread on this recently and my concern for us UK players is that the best/biggest poker sites seem to deal in $'s. This means that we need to earn almost double the amount that our American friends do if we are playing $'s but living in a £'s environment! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 445 | From: Edinburgh (Scotland) | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | kamrann Member Member # 1069 Member Rated: posted 05-02-2004 01:26 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very good point Vader. With the current exchange rate it really isn't a very good time to play online for a living if you're in the UK. aplayer, I've never played for a living but the advice I'd give would be to put in as many hours as you can whilst still working, playing exactly what you would if you decided to do it, and see what your win rate and consistency are like, and if you'd be able to comfortably live on it. Of course to get a good idea you'd have to do this for a substantial length of time. Also, as others have said, discipline and patience are absolutely vital to playing for a living. You'd have to make certain you had these up to scratch before starting. I think about the best advice you could take would be evenmoney's suggestion that if you want to start playing for a living you should keep a pert time job to begin with as well. I dont want to put a downer on things, but I'd have to say my advice would be not to do it, certainly at the moment given you have substantial family committments with 4 young children. I know a couple of people who've made the move to full-time. Both were good players, both failed. It's clearly just very tough. And the other thing is that it made them enjoy the game a whole lot less, given that it became their job. Best of luck either way. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 555 | From: London, UK | Registered: Jul 2002 | IP: Logged | Jimmyjohn Member Member # 1262 Member Rated: posted 05-02-2004 04:01 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Absent of more financial data, you should make selling your business a decision independent of poker. If it is a good offer that you would accept if you had never heard of poker, then sell the business. There is no reason, assuming you sell the business, why you can't start another career and play part time for a while. I am sure many pros have income from other sources that doesn't fluctuate like your poker income invariably will. Keep us posted!!!! Jimmyjohn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1060 | From: Victoria, Texas | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-02-2004 04:35 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok thanks guys , thanks a lot. I'm gonna try it as i've really nothing to lose, a position i might never be in again i suppose. I have decided to write a journal about it starting next month after the sale goes through, how did you guys get into poker, were you gamblers first and poker players later?? It might be a good story you never know, ive started with a small bit about me so far if any1 is remotely interested, it's nowhere near finished and things get worse before they got better.

It's nowhere near finished i said before all the abuse starts lol http://journals.aol.co.uk/macey10004/MyPokerstorymakingalivingplaying/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Acevader Member Member # 3464 Member Rated: posted 05-02-2004 05:02 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Having read your journal I'm inclined to think you don't have the disapline to be a full-time poker player. However, on the basis you seem to have started several small businesses from nothing and developed them in a tough UK economy I'm inclined to think this is your tallent! What you've done can't have been easy!! Perhaps if you stopped gambling and re-invested your money to grow you business you could hit the big time that way and then you could play poker for a living without the need to actually make any money Identify your tallent in life and use it. Most new start businesses in the UK go under in the 1st year yet you somehow have no problem with this. Go be the next Tom Farmer, Brason, etc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 445 | From: Edinburgh (Scotland) | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | gambleholic Member Member # 1258 Member Rated: posted 05-02-2004 05:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want a good living and can't beat a high limit online game then don't bother. Watch the Stars 100/200 game or the Paradise 40/80 and if you can beat these games then by all means do it as you can make more than almost any one out there. But if you are asking this question you may have a problem beating a 1/2 game. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1093 | From: Toronto,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | YolkyPalky Member Member # 2603 Rate Member posted 05-02-2004 05:15 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmm, making a living playing 3/6, well lets assume you are really good and over the long-haul can make 3x BB an hour, or $18, multiply that by 2080 hours (standard 40 hour week, 52 weeks a year) and you get $37,440. I'm sorry, but $37,440 isn't exactly the dream life I would be shooting for, especially considering you have a family to support also. [ 05-02-2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: YolkyPalky ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 181 | From: San Diego, California | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-02-2004 05:16 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah thanks, but like i said it's not finished the self control is still to come that was upto 10 years ago when that was going on and things got worse mate before i learned a lesson. Thanks for the advice though, and yes it's true around 92% of small businesses fail in the first year, that is mainly due to insufficient funds and trying to go too big too soon which is an easy mistake to make. I learnt that commitment is really the key to succcess and suppose that goes for most things in life not just a business. And as for the money issue of playing $3/$6 i did say to start obviously i'm not gonna stay at those limits forever. [ 05-02-2004, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: aplayer ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Acevader Member Member # 3464 Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 06:31 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good luck man and keep us posted with your progress as I'll be very interested to know how you get on given I'm a UK based player too -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 445 | From: Edinburgh (Scotland) | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | Z Member Member # 2613

Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 07:47 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2BB/HR is good enough when you play 3 simultaneous 3-6 tables. There has to be some folks knocking around at 3-6 who has poker as their main source of income. But the real hustlers relying solely on poker are found at 10-20 and above online. I think there's one issue that has been completely left out in this discussion. Apart from the money is poker really the life you want to live? In the gambling envioronment (where I spent most of my childhood) only two things count - gambling and money. Personally I expect my life to be about a lot more then money and gambling, and for that reason most of my social life has to be built outside the gambling environment. Don't get me wrong - I love playing poker, and I have a few buddies with whom I share this passion, but being the player I am, I find the real challenge to be all the important things in life that are not found at the poker table. If poker will help you achieve the things you want out of life - go ahead and give it a shot. But if it gets into conflict with some of the things you want out of life, you might wanna give it a miss, and stay recreational. It's not all things that you should do just because you can. But if you give it a try, you'll know if it's the right thing for you after a while anyway I guess. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1446 | From: Copenhagen, Denmark | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Ricky Chan Member Member # 3598 Rate Member posted 05-03-2004 09:03 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great advice everyone! There is no doubt that 3/6 would not be good enough to live on, especially with a family to feed. You have to remember there will be swings and not every nite you will be making money. So what happens on those days when you cant catch a hand? Thats not very fair to your family. There should always be a steady income in a family... not a risk. A lot of the pro poker players came from a productive job first, then went to poker, not the other way around. In my opinion, you should not quit your business... instead do BOTH. Work full time (start investing right away), then play poker part time, until you feel you can make a decent profit each and every day. When you feel you have enough money saved up and you feel comfortable playing poker 24/7, then go for it. Then again.... 3/6 wont cut it buddy. If you want to make any decent money, you have to pay at least 5/10 or 10/20... with consideration you want to do it for a living. Best of luck! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3785 | From: Honolulu, Hawaii | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged | Bruce C. Member Member # 3276 Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 11:54 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amen to what Ricky said--you can't live at 3-6, if your idea of living is scratching and grinding through bad beats. Even 5/10 is rough--no "grind it out" pro I've ever known plays anything less than 10/20, other than just fooling around. I also echo Z. Is "poker player" how you want to define yourself? You will have grandchildren someday, and they may ask you why Grandpa sold the store, or whatever it is, and stopped going to work every day. Will you be comfortable answering that? I love poker, and make some money at it, and have been doing so for a while. But I have kids to put through college and an ex-wife and future wife to support. I plan on playing more frequently when I retire, but I will never be a professional. That's for younger folks with limited responsibilities, true geniuses, or those with rich parents or money they made on their own. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2527 | From: Illinois | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-03-2004 12:29 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Z That's an excellent point and something i'm considering now, basically what i want to acheive and how it will effect my quality of life I guess I think if i don't at least try it will be something i will regret, and i hate not having done something i wanted to do. I know that having another source of income is a good idea and have thought about doing a sideline, but by i've found my quality of life suffering through running a business for the last few years as it's an amazing ammount of hours and you never actually switch off. It's around a 14 hour day as it is so playing 8 to 10 hours poker a day will give me extra time, and allow a holiday or two..........maybe !! A weekend off is a very rare thing at the moment, i'm not complaing as it's given us finacial freedom but thats not all lifes about ! Ricky th

anks for the advice, don't think my family isn't an issue here as it's the main issue, but we have no mortage and 2 years worth of saving to fall back on, I'm not gambling with their lives here m8, simply wanting advice on wether it could be worth it. As i said before i wanted to start at $3/$6 not stay there as i think the players are weaker there. I should have enough to survive the swings at these limits and try a year of play to see the outcome ! Bruce : yeah i'd be comfortable answering that question, would it make a difference to them what i did for a living? I'd be comfortable saying i went bust and cleaned toilets for the rest of my life its thats the way it happened, surely it dosen't effect the way your family see you ! I started a site about poker which was basically to try and create an income and allow me a little extra time to my self, but it didn't work out as yet, not enough to retire on anyway. I'll take all your points very seriously and wish to thank you all for the advice. I'll let you know the results ! [ 05-03-2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: aplayer ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | RounderHarry Member Member # 3599 Rate Member posted 05-03-2004 12:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just one thing I thought I'd add to the great advice already given is to make sure you keep records of how you did every time you play poker. I'm surprised that it hasn't been said already but I think it is crucial. By keeping records you'll see what games you're doing best at, when you're on a roll or on tilt, etc. Believe me, it sucks to have to record a loss, but knowing where you are at overall is very important. Many players might say that overall they've made money because they think they remember everything, but if you have it on paper, than you are sure of where you're at. It will be a great way for you to see if you really have what it takes to move to the next level. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 471 | From: NJ | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged | brains Member Member # 2055 Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 01:21 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a few questions that I dont think have been sufficiently answered if you are to use poker as a primary source of income: 1. Are you actually good enough at poker? At what site and levels do you currently play ring games and have you made a decent profit at them over the long run? I have played with you briefly at 1/2 (might have been 0.5/1) limit on Ultimate Bet, can you beat this limit? I imagine the jump in quality between 1/2 and even 3/6 would be huge. Have you had any experience at these higher levels (online) that makes you think you will be able to beat them? 2. What happens if it doesn't work out? Do you think you will be able to find work again easily enough? 3. What does your wife think of this idea? I am not married myself, but I cant imagine many women with 4 small children to look after being happy with this idea, its difficult to play good poker if you have problems in your personal life. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 381 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-03-2004 01:38 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah i remeber playing $1/$2 with you thats basically as my funds in UB were limited as i only really joined for the forum tourny and to try it out. I usually play $2/$4 and $3/$6 at ladbrokes occassionally higher but not very often. I do win at these levels and do well for the limited hours i can play due to work commitments. If i'm good enough, that remains to be seen but i beleive i am, but i am quite arrogant at times so maybe i'm kidding myself but I am confident. As for the wife, we'll she is possible the most laid back supportive person in the word (girfriend, not married yet) she thinkis it's a good idea as weve talked about it in depth and she often watches me play, even though she dosen't understand wtf is going on. Work, yes i think i could find work easily enough if things turned bad, having been in business for 10 years i know a lot of contacts whom i'm sure would be happy to help me out with something if i needed it. I've decided to at last take some time off work and got my dad to hold the fort while i put some serious hours in next

week as kind of a test. [ 05-03-2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: aplayer ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Ricky Chan Member Member # 3598 Rate Member posted 05-03-2004 03:07 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Bruce C.: I love poker, and make some money at it, and have been doing so for a while. But I have kids to put through college and an ex-wife and future wife to support. I plan on playing more frequently when I retire, but I will never be a professional. That's for younger folks with limited responsibilities, true geniuses, or those with rich parents or money they made on their own. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce C hit it right on the knob there. There is no doubt we all love poker and will continue to play until we are dead.... but you can do it without quitting your job/business. In fact, poker would be great to supplement your income (thats if you are good enough). But remember m8, you have to be good to turn a profit, a decent one that is. If it was that easy, everyone would be quitting their jobs and playing poker for a living. As for me, i play poker in Vegas at least 3-4 times a year and play in Home Games 2x a week. I make a pretty good profit, but i still go to school, still have a job, and im happy to be doing all of it. Unless you are a professional e.g. Lederer, Ivey, Seidel, type of player with that much success... poker should not be a living, but more like side income or a hobby. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3785 | From: Honolulu, Hawaii | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged | brains Member Member # 2055 Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 03:28 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In my opinion you dont sound experienced enough yet to try it, but that idea next week would be a start, you need to know if you can cope playing 8 hours a day online, with no human contact - I dont think I could. However, in my opinion, with 4 young kids, I dont think this is the time for you to risk this. PS. "Brains" is not my UB alias so you wouldn't know me on there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 381 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | incoherentb Member Member # 3385 posted 05-03-2004 03:56 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ive been playing for almost 3 months and im down a total of 60 dollars. can i go pro????? please -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 122 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | Z Member Member # 2613 Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 05:38 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't read your life story when I wrote my first reply. I'll be quite frank with you here, so do with my advice whatever you like. After all it's your life and you who will have to live with the consequences of your actions. After reading it I strongly recommend you not to go ahead with this idea. What you need to accomplish is to get back in the drivers seat. It seems to me that up to this point in your life you've always ended up letting gambling take control of you. Why should this time be any different? Self control is not something you learn at the poker tables. Neither is money management. So in my opinion your idea here sound a bit like you're trying to pull the excape hatch yet one more time. What I think you should do was to take a 5 year break from gambling alltogether. Find out what your trying to escape from, when you go on your gambling rampage. Cause poker wont be any different then your previous gambling experiences unless you show a great amount of discipline, self restraint, emotional awareness, and willingness to learn. With your previous gambling problems I strongly suspect thast you lack in the first three of these skills. Who am I to tell you this? Well from I was 11 to 21 I was at the rece tracks whenever I could get there. The rest of the time I used on thinking about horse racces and studying the programs. There was nothing really going on in my life except for this. And yes - the beauty of it all was that all my problems vanished as soon as I entered the race track. In there no thoughts or conversations were going on that didn't concern the outcome of the next race. In my teenage years I got acquainted with all the jockey sons and we started playing cards and craps for decent sums. I financed through booking for them, and after a while my phone was

busy every single evening. In the end I just got sick of it all. These guys used to be my friends, but in the end all they cared about was my money. So I moved away and made myself a promise that I've kept to this very day. I will never ever again put myself in a situation where I'm not free to decide what to do because of money trouble. Neither will I ever again let a friendship get ruined because of money issues. This last principle means that I never grant loans to my friends. If I have the money I'll rather give them away, so I don't have to worry about it. Quitting the gambling environment was probably one of the most important decisions in my life. It taught me that there are people out there who respect you for what you are, and not just for what you're worth. And it has taught me that anything is possible for me, as long as I keep insisting on being the one calling the shots, instead of just letting things (like gambling or other types of escapism) happen by themselves, without my explicit permission. To exemplify what I mean - when I started out playing poker I set a monthly budget of 50$ a month for my poker hobby. And I've kept that budget ever since, despite the fact that I've had to go back to play money on several occations to keep that promise to myself. Would you be able to do that? If the answer is no - what will happen eventually is that you take a beating and move up limits looking for a quick fix, and get skinned alive. So I really don't think gambling/poker is something for you. Furthermore you probably need more experience too. If you can beat 10-20$ online over a 4 monthly period, you are in a position where you can think about basing your life on poker, though even there it wouyld be a risky proposition. You can make a living on 3-6 but you'll need to play 3-4 tables simultaneously, and I have not been able to do that successfully yet (not at 3-6$ at least). So why don't you take your time. In a couple of years pokler will still be there. A lot of words that was meant as friendly advice. I'm not the one to tell a grown man what to do (though I can't help talking to myself at the tables!), but you asked for advice, and advice is what you got. Whatever you end up doing, good luck with it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1446 | From: Copenhagen, Denmark | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Jeanie Member Member # 3411 Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 05:50 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to something rounder randy brought up. When I started using pokercharts.com I started doing better because I never wanted to record a loss. Sure some days you will but it is a good goal to always record a profit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3047 | From: JeanieJ06.blogspot.com | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 05-03-2004 10:08 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is a guy I talk to on aim who lives in germany, has 2 kids, is on welfare and thinks its ok to work on an advanced dungeons and dragons module all day while his wife works. The first post of this thread the writer is so delusional that thats what i'm reminded of. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | GarySJFL Moderator Member # 1342 Member Rated: posted 05-03-2004 11:31 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What you've also got to consider is maintaining bankroll. If you're taking money out of your bankroll for living expenses and "salary", you've got to have a bigger bankroll than you would otherwise. The rule-of-thumb of 300 big bets assumes that you're not taking any money out of the system. If you are, then you need more, because some of the wins that would be offsetting your bankroll losses is now being spent on trivialities like health care for the kiddies. I once sat down and tried to work out what my professional bankroll requirements would be, based on my current win rate/standard deviation, and accounting for the removal of an "hourly wage" for myself. I did a simple bankroll calculation based on my "net" winnings (my hourly win rate after I removed money from the system to pay myself), standard deviation, and a most conservative risk or ruin. The bankroll I needed to pull this off, given my low win rate, fair living expenses, and high aversion to ruin, was astronomical. I think it was 2000BB. It was thus proven obvious that professionalism was way out of my reach. (Not that I was seriously considering it -- I only play 1-2 and 2-4, after all.) You must sit down and make a similar evaluation of your own game. Take your win rate, standard deviation, deduct however much you want to pay yourself hourly, allow for vacations (you need breaks from the game), and see if you can get from Point A to Point B. I found it to be a tall order. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1886 | From: south Florida | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931

Rate Member posted 05-04-2004 12:17 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, advice is what i asked for and thats what i got, I will say as previously stated that isn't my life story upto date it's just a bit of background on me from years ago, there have been massive changes in my life that to be honest have turned me around. I know where your coming from there though Z and your advice makes perfect sense to me and wish i'd have heard it 6 years ago when i needed it most. So many thanks for that. If you have read above you would see that i wouldn't be dipping into my bankroll for living expenses as they are covered. And as for the guy who sat at home all day while his wife went to work, well suppose thats upto them, not something i would be comfortable with but there again my girlfriend hasn't worked now for 8 years and i have been unemployed for only 3 months of my entire life, this is in no way simular to that occasion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Sad Max Member Member # 3621 Rate Member posted 05-04-2004 12:22 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hey aplayer, well, I don't think it is possible to make your living by playing 3-6 online games. I don't know where you play online, I play at paradise, but the games aren't THAT loose to make 3BB and more per hour. I mean if anyone here is able to do so I would appreciate.(But don't show me a statistic less than 2000 hours please). If you are able to make 1-2BB per hour in live games you are good. But you have to recognize that in online games your advantages are not the same as in live games. For example physical expressions, or to "own" the table, and so on... This all will reduce your income at least 25% compared to live games. However Let's say you are an excellent player making 2BB an hour over the period of 1 year(2000hours) will give you 12000$ profit. After let's say 2 years you have 24000$ (this means you never spent some of this money for living!!) and you are starting to play 20-40. At the higher limit online game you won't make more then 1BB per hour FOR SURE! So you will have 16000$ in the 3rd year. Year#4 you have a 40000$ Bankroll you are playing 20-40 you are able to cash in your earnings and buy some food for the children (you said you are able to afford two years, so they had to wait one year for some food!!) I wish you all the best! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 73 | From: Vienna | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged | Sad Max Member Member # 3621 Rate Member posted 05-04-2004 12:32 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- just figured out that 40*2000 is not 16000 ts, ts well the will get something to eat a little earlier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 73 | From: Vienna | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged | Jeanie Member Member # 3411 Member Rated: posted 05-04-2004 02:30 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just to add some encouragement here. When I quit my full time job I was only playing 3/6 and tournaments (10-100) and making good money doing it and more money doing it than I was at my full time job. Play at pacific they are very loose players and very bad players. Of course I only have one other person to support so take this lightly, I'm just saying to the doubters that it is possible especially when you'll make enough to go to the higher limits and make more in time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3047 | From: JeanieJ06.blogspot.com | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | GarySJFL Moderator Member # 1342 Member Rated: posted 05-04-2004 08:20 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original

ly posted by aplayer: If you have read above you would see that i wouldn't be dipping into my bankroll for living expenses as they are covered. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very well, I'll amend my comment to read "If you are taking money out of the system, then you need more than 300 BB, because some of the wins that would be offsetting your bankroll losses are now being taken out as salary." Since I assume the goal of this endeavor is to pay yourself income. My point about the higher bankroll requirement still applies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1886 | From: south Florida | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged | HuskerFan Member Member # 2310 Rate Member posted 05-04-2004 08:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- this whole arguement is based upon what one person feels is a weekly pay vs's another interpretation....to those here pulling in 6figures a year at their 40hour a week job, they would scoff and say its impossible to make the same amount of money...and it may be...not everyone makes 50/60/70/100K a year at their job....to those who may make between 12-18HR (like most average americans) i say IMO its very possible to achieve this by playing online, with no boss and no one to answer to, waking up whenever you feel like and going to bed whenever you like.....some people like the freedom....there's lots of things one needs to factor in when making a decision of this magnitude...family/health insurance/mortgage etc....maybe a married guy has a wife and kid and she has a decent job with good insurance coverage and they are on hers...then he wouldnt have to worry about that aspect of it.... ...speaking for myself, i have a girlfriend who recently graduated from college (1year ago) and she's got 50K in student loans to pay back....she an engineer making close in the neighborhood of 40K right out of school....sounds great right?...for those who dont know thats in the $18-20HR range....dont tell me a good poker player cant make 15-$20HR playing 2-3 tables online..... [ 05-04-2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: HuskerFan ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 164 | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | Loonatik Junior Member Member # 2902 Rate Member posted 05-05-2004 10:22 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, I have imagined what it would be like to play poker full time for a living. To be honest I don't think I would enjoy poker as much if I did. And would I give up my career of 15 years with the great benefits and my retirement...nope!! But I would like to earn say $600 - $800 a month extra playing poker instead of working OT at my job for the extra money. What limit should I play to achieve this If I play say 16+ hrs a week? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 23 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | sothys Junior Member Member # 3199 Rate Member posted 05-05-2004 02:25 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @lonatik: If you play 16hours a week, and we say there is an average 4 weeks per month, you will be playing 64 hours a month. 11*64 = 704 so if you can make 2BB hour on the 3/6 thats what you would need -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 28 | From: denmark | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | Tomas Loden Junior Member Member # 3526 Rate Member posted 05-06-2004 08:03 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are some guys making a Good Living Playing Poker... / Tomas Player of the Year 2004 - Top 20 Rank Player Points 1 Barry Greenstein 3,532 2 Daniel Negreanu 3,480 3 Hasan Habib 2,756 4 Howard Lederer 2,680 5 Can Kim Hua 2,354 6 John Juanda 2,184 7 Quoc Al 'Vinnie' Vinh 2,101 8 Erick Lindgren 2,040 9 Paul Phillips 1,856 10 Mike Kinney 1,854 11 Antonio Esfandiari 1,824 12 Paul 'Eskimo'

Clark 1,738 13 Scott Fischman 1,698 14 John Phan 1,692 15 Justin Cuong Van 'J.C.' Tran 1,674 16 Martin de Knijff 1,632 16 'Miami' John Cernuto 1,632 18 Douglas Farmer 1,608 19 Tony Bloom 1,520 20 Randy Jensen 1,480
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