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I just started playing online about two weeks ago. I started at the .10/.25 NL tables over at UB. I had read several books and read countless articles and considered my self to be pretty knowledgable. Anyway, I have done pretty well up till the last two days. Recently I just bumped up to .25/.50 NL. The avg. pot is anywhere from 10-20 bucks. Anyway, I did alright the first few days, and things were smooth sailing. Unfortunately, I've basically had two devestating days in a row. I've lost about 1/3 of my bankroll. The first day was mostly my fault. I slow played pocket aces and got taken along with a couple of other things. Basically, I had a string of crappy cards and crappy play. I didn't do anything too crazy and go on the tilt, but I did pretty bad. Yesterday, I had another downer. For example, I had pocket 7s and the flop came with another 7, so I had a set. However, there were 2 hearts out on the board. I raise the pot $2 and I get a caller. Another meaningless card comes on 4th street. I raise another $2 bucks, he calls again. I'm not sure what to put him on at this point, but I wasn't thinking a flush draw. Anyway last comes cards and it is a heart. I bet $5 and he raises me another $5. I call, and he turns over a couple of hearts. Honestly, I probably should have raised more earlier in the hand, but lately it just seems as though I have been driving away any action with my huge bets.

In a couple of hands I get A J. Flop comes A K 4. No flush possability. I bet $1 and get raised another $2. I'm thinking maybe he has an A, but I was thinking he might have a K as well. I call. The turn brings another A. I'm thinking this is pretty dang good, the odds of him having the other ace are not too high, and I have a great kicker. I go ahead and try to trap him, so I check. He bets $5, and then go ahead and raise him the rest of his money, which is another $7 or so. He calls, the river is meaningless. He turns over A Q, beating my kicker. Is there anyway to avoid this? I don't think I was outplayed, nothing could have told me he had a Q. Is this just one of those poker things you have to deal with? Anyway, I went on and lost another 10 bucks on some other hand, but I made the right move, laying down my pocket 10s. Basically, the last couple of days have really eaten me. I feel that I haven't played incredibly poorly, but have just taken some blows that were pretty hard to get out of. Does anybody else feel depressed after 2 losing days? It kills me, I can't stop thinking about it, and it just eats at me. If it weren't for finals coming up, I'd probably be back in there trying to win some of my money back, but I've got tests to study for. This makes things even worse, all I can think about is how I lost money. I had contemplated making a part-time job out of this for some extra money during the summer, but after the last 2 days I don't know if I could deals with the stress. Anybody else ever feel this way? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 373 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | MarkyMark Member Member # 2140 Rate Member posted 05-05-2004 04:15 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 things: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The turn brings another A. I'm thinking this is pretty dang good, the odds of him having the other ace are not too high, and I have a great kicker. I go ahead and try to trap him, so I check. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- don´t know which books you read, but if they told you AJ is a good hand because of that great kicker, burn them and get some better books. Actually, in NL, AJ is a pretty weak hand which requires lots of experience and judgement to play them correctly. You made huge mistakes in that hand and paid for it. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f it weren't for finals coming up, I'd probably be back in there trying to win some of my money back, but I've got tests to study for. This makes things even worse, all I can think about is how I lost money. I had contemplated making a part-time job out of this for some extra money during the summer, but after the last 2 days I don't know if I could deals with the stress -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stop playing poker. seriously, if you think about doing it as a "job" and this is your thinking (you´ve been playing for 2 weeks?!!), save yourself from more trouble and quit it. Also, if losing 1/3 of your bankroll in a few hands, you should step down as low as you can. Oh yeah, never play NL with scared money... actually, never play poker with scared money! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 559 | From: Frankfurt, Germany | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged | tekku7181 Member Member # 3265 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 04:25 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stop playing,,,write off the few bucks u lost as a learniing experience and be done with it otherwise it sounds like u will get in too deep too quickly.. u cant play correctly with your current state of mind -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 439 | From: nyc | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | shivvyman Member Member # 3365 Rate Member posted 05-05-2004 04:27 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know about you, but a J seems like a pretty good kicker to me. If he has a King, he has the full house, and I'm obviously beat, but I didn't read him for that. The only thing left is Q or under me, and he had the queen. Don't tell me you wouldn't have folded trip aces with a jack kicker. I honestly believe I played this hand pretty well. You can rip on me for the stupid trip 7s hand, and I deserve what I got there, but this hand, I'm having a hard time saying its 100% my fault. I got outkicked by 1 card, that is all I know. I'm talking about a part-time summer job as making $6 an hour. I might make $7 lifeguarding or doing some other

crap. I'm in school, I can't get a good job for $20 an hour during the summer time for 3 months. I'm just looking to supplement the income a little, not make a career move. No offense, but I don't think you have the slightest inclincation of my playing abilities. I've made some mistakes, but just because I've only played 2 weeks online does not make me a bad player. Maybe I'm inexperienced compared to you, but I doubt my playing skills are lightyears behind yours. I mean, I can send you my playing log if you would like. I keep track of it all on an Excel sheet. You'll see I'm a winner in the long run. I'm not sure what my average per hour is now after my 2 bad days, but before that (playing .10/.25 NL), I believe it was around $5 an hour. That isn't too bad if you ask me. [ 05-05-2004, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: shivvyman ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 373 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | ProAMP Member Member # 2497 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 04:51 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shivvy, You will be okay. Everyone losses and it sucks, but you cant dwell on the short term. This is a long term game. Pick yourself up and keep going, but never go into a game thinking I have to win the money, that I just lost, back. You have to play your game, and the money will come back. If you are thinking you need that money back, most of the time you will play too many hands, and go even deeper in your pocket. Just play your game. I have seen you play, you will do alright. Since you just steped up to .25/.50 NL and had a bad run, I would suggest stepping back down to .10/.25 NL, and keep grinding it out. It is definantly a grind, so dont move to fast. Make sure your bankroll is safe at the higher level, if it goes down (like it has) step back down til you feel comfortable giving it another shot. The bad run of cards happen to all of us, and almost all of us will lose our whole bankroll at one point in our lives, especially if you take a salary out of you bankroll. So yes it is hard and stressful. I think you can handle it, and the time off is probably good. I know it sucks when I cant get to the tables especially after losing, but sometimes that gives us time to refocus. Stress is going to be there anytime you do something for money. People in sales get stressed. If people jobs are going bad, they get stressed because they need income and cant afford to get fired. Poker is stressful, and the swings can be killer, but the swings will always turn, and in the end, you will be where you want to be. January was my rough run of cards. I dropped more than a couple thousand, but I got back on the horse, and January couldnt seem any farther away right now. I havent seen you on UB in a while. I havent played there since the last time they were having problems, and probably wont til I get back from the WSOP, as I have cashed out of there. But I keep checking in, to see if you are on. Anyway, take the time off to clear your head, and get back to it when you can. As far as a parttime job, would you have other income (another job) or just poker? Either way, I doubt you have to much expenses, so if you can handle stress, give it a go, but it would probably be good to have some guaranteed income on the side, until you feel completely comfortable with this game. Good luck on the finals. ProAMP P.S. Dont throw good money after bad money? Play your game! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 158 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | ProAMP Member Member # 2497 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 05:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just read your other post. The Jack is a pretty good kicker, but it is getting close to the gray area in NL. You just have to play it carefully, but I dont think you could lay down the trip Aces unless you knew alot about your opponent. On the summer job, if you get another PT job paying 6-7/hr. Poker would be a good way to supplement your income. Your good enough to grind it out, just dont move too fast. You will be fine. Now I got to get back to work, before I get fired a couple days before I quit. LOL. ProAMP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 158 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | CTBob Member Member # 2546 posted 05-05-2004 05:05 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For what it's worth, if you have only been playing online for two weeks, I doubt you have very much no limit experience. If you are not a solid limit player, NL will devistate you. If you lost 1/3 of your bankroll in two days, I have to assume that you are actually a terrible player, or that your bankroll is far too small for the game you are playing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your bankroll is too small, because that is a big problem, even among players who have a solid game. I played cards for nearly ten years before I ever sat down in an NL cash game. I only began playing online back in February. Right around this time Paradise Poker began offering .01/.02 $2 NL games. I started with $60 and ran it up to almost $300 playing those games. For that limit, $60 represents 30 buy-ins. The most I ever lost in one day is 5 buy-ins. I always had enough money, given my skill level and the difficulty of the game (.01/.02 NL is pretty easy to beat) I never came anywhere near close to losing 1/3 of my bankroll in a short period of time. The point of m

y story is that if you really want to play .10/.25 NL, you really need to have a bankroll of around $1000 for that game in order to minimize your risk of ruin. The weaker you play, the bigger the bankroll you will need in order to keep from going broke. If you want to play NL you will have big swings, so get used to it, especially if you are just starting out. It sucks, but that's poker. Certainly losing streaks don't make me happy, but part of being a winner is not letting these types of things really get to you. My advice would be to learn to beat fixed limit games before taking on big bet poker. Finally, two weeks is not enough time to base any sort of conclusions about your abilities or win rates on. You need months, if not years of data-tens of thousands of hands before you can really judge whether or not you are a winning player, and what your true average hourly rate is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2708 | From: Ansonia,CT,USA | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | BLMike Member Member # 2118 Rate Member posted 05-05-2004 05:10 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by shivvyman: I've made some mistakes, but just because I've only played 2 weeks online does not make me a bad player................I keep track of it all on an Excel sheet. You'll see I'm a winner in the long run. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shivvyman -- I believe you need several months of solid, consistent play in the money to conclude you're "a winner in the long run" for on-line play (which is different than casino play). You've been playing for 2 weeks! You can't conclude anything from that IMHO. I believe ProAMP has it exactly right. Go back to the lower game. I've found whenever I move up too quickly, I have a hard time letting go of my big day or days of loses. They will happen regardless of how good you are. When I can't let go of them, I know I'm at the wrong level and move back down. If you lost 1/3 of your bankroll in 2 days (regardless of how bad your cards are), you're playing at too high a level IMHO. Good luck. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 141 | From: NJ USA | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged | Bruce C. Member Member # 3276 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 05:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I got my first real taste of the lash yesterday too. A steady stream of winning, at increasing limits, had me thinking this was real easy. But I've been around long enough to know better. I know that despite how monumentally pissed I was that every big PP I had got cracked, that I missed every nut flush draw, that none of my bluffs worked, and that I probably played too long while on the downside, tomorrow is another day. Just with a lot smaller numbers in my UB account. For you conspiracy theorists, this occurred the evening after I cashed out a pretty good chunk of my profits in the morning. I don't have the desire to chase, so I will stick to small limits and medium buy-in tourneys until I can regroup. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2956 | From: Illinois | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | CTBob Member Member # 2546 posted 05-05-2004 05:17 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As far as AJ goes. It is what is known as a trouble hand, as you found out, it can get you in trouble. It's good, but not great. In a raised pot, I would never play it, or even AQ for that matter unless it was suited. In an unraised pot, if you hit TP with AJ, it figures to be the best most of the time. Often if someone has a hand like AK or AQ you will know about it before the flop when they raise. On the flop, it all comes down to judgement. With AJ you would really rather hit a J on the flop than an A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2708 | From: Ansonia,CT,USA | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | shivvyman Member Member # 3365 Rate Member posted 05-05-2004 06:10 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First, yes my bankroll was small. I only threw $50 in there and then I received another $25 for the bonus. After almost around 30-35 hours of play, it was around $225. Obviously, this is chunk change to most of you, but to me it was worth a little something. As I said, I'm in college, so every little bit helps. I don't believe you need $1000 to play NL at the .10/.25 NL tables. To me, that just seems a little too much, I'd probably bump up the stakes. Maybe I did bump up a little too fast, I'm not sure. I've had NL experience before, just not online. It's not like I just decided I'd play NL over limit. I believe I'm actually better at NL compared to limit. For the most part, I play a pretty patient game, and I don't have a problem folding 15 hands in a row. However, I do have a problem getting a good hand and seeing me lose it. I'll admit, that is where I get a little pissed, to say the least.

Basically, I'm just pretty competitive and I hate the thought of losing my money to an inferior player. Call it cocky, but I believe I'm better than almost every other player who dinks around at the .25/.50 NL tables. I'm a realist, and I know if I moved up to $1/$2 I'd probably get crushed, I'm just not ready for that game, but I feel I can handle the current tables I'm at. I had two bad days and that is all I can really say. Tomarrow I'll be back at it, and I'll report to see how things go. I plan to play for a good 5 hours, so hopefully this will give me plenty of time to play my game. I do hope to have a part-time summer job. I just figured I would play a little poker in the evening times to help out a little. I don't want to HAVE to make all my money through poker, I doubt I could deal with the stress. Days like these make me wonder how any average joe thinks he should quit his job and play full time. Seems like a hard life unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks for the replies. [ 05-05-2004, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: shivvyman ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 373 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | Randy2310 Member Member # 2550 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 06:37 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Basically, I'm just pretty competitive and I hate the thought of losing my money to an inferior player. Call it cocky, but I believe I'm better than almost every other player who dinks around at the .25/.50 NL tables. I'm a realist... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem with everything you just said is that it makes you out to be just the opposite, a non-realist inferior player You're coming into the game with the "cocky" (as you say) attitude that you deserve to win their money, and they are inferior to you. Right there is your biggest road block, and to why you are having such stress over 2 days of loss. I'm not going to analyze your hands or suggest what could have been played differently or not. Its possible to play a hand properly and still become trapped or drawn out on. I'm posting this reply to stress the difference in attitude you need. I also posted some replies in another topic in the Texas Holdem - Online Play section in regards to new and recreational players in regards to no limit and what brings them to the table and motivates their play, mostly having to do with entertainment & financial situation. It may offer an insight as to why people draw to the hands they do. Just a side to consider. I do wish you winning hands and a successful summer :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 199 | From: NJ | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Randy2310 Member Member # 2550 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 06:44 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.thepokerforum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001590 Some of it is in regards to single table tournements (sit-n-gos) but I discuss my experience in coming head to head with players who play the smallest limits available who bring not skill to the table, but contentment to be in the game, and that can be dangerous to a "superior" player attitude -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 199 | From: NJ | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | wildbillhickok Member Member # 2679 posted 05-05-2004 07:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shivvy, take SEVERAL days off from poker...study for your finals (i'm GIVING finals this week) Get that degree and keep poker as a hobby and part time job. (sounds like a good idea, get that other part time job too so you're not playing with scared money) Just about all us think we're really good at first...i did...then 3 months later, i laughed at myself for thinking how good i was...i'd gotten better and realized how foolish i was, thinking i was just about as good as you can get. AFTER finals, run out and get Cloutier's pot limit/no limit tournament book...it'll become your bible. When i first read it, i gave it away for $5 thinking it was no good...the thing was, I was not good enuf to see how good it was...i was an idiot at the time...later, i paid $15 to get it back, and wouldn't take $100 for it, if i couldn't get another copy. Doyle Brunson said he's lost more money with an AQ than any other hand, so AJ IS a trouble hand...you gotta figure if the other guy was still in there swinging with you, that he DID have an Ace something...a good player would throw away an A 10 or less in NL most of the times, so you've got to figure him for A big kicker. Your set against the possible flush? Yessir, you should have bet that HARD and taken it down on the flop... You comm

ented your big bets were driving people off... ^_^ Think about that again... isn't that a pretty nice situation? Better to win small/medium pots consistently than to lose a big one ever now and then. Take the break... downsize to lower limit till you build back up and keep'em flying! All the best to ya. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 479 | From: phoenix,az,usa | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | shivvyman Member Member # 3365 Rate Member posted 05-05-2004 07:10 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well I'm taking a day away from poker for sure. I have a nice little German test to study for tomarrow. I don't think you'll have to worry about me dropping out of college to pursue a poker career. I would never do that and I know my parents would kill me as well before I even got to sit down at my first table. I'm currently majoring in Business Marketing with a minor in German, and another minor in Economics. I think I'll be in college for the rest of my life, but at least I'll have a little poker to play on the side. Randy, you may have a point to a certain extent about some players playing almost any hand just for the sake of 'entertainment.' I almost get the feeling I'm playing a bunch of retired people or someobody at work. They are there in their spare time or lunch break, they are there for fun, not to win money. Maybe that explains why one guy decided to see the flop with Q 3, suited, and eventually hit his flush. I would like to believe that, in the long run, I'll always get the best of these players, and it seems to look that way. I've played three sit-n-go's since I started playing. I placed second one, and third in the other two. I at least made the money each time. However, these were only the $5 SNG tables. Even though I've made money each time, I'm a little afraid that I could just lose it on any given hand, I can't be as patient as I'd like because the blinds are continually going up. I play a tight game, and it works for the most part, but I can't seem to get first. Maybe I'll try playing more of these games, but I just feel more comfortable at the .25/.50 NL tables. Lastly, I don't think I'm god's gift to poker, but I do believe I'm better than almost anybody at the tables (the level I play at). Don't you tend to think the same way? Why would you sit down at a table when you know you are the inferior player? It makes no sense to me. Sure, somebody make get the best of me every now and then, but I'll get them in the long run. [ 05-05-2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: shivvyman ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 373 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | GarySJFL Member Member # 1342 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 07:37 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shiv, you've got entirely the wrong attitude. First, don't read too much into short-term results, one way or the other. It's possible that your success at 10c-25c was due to good luck, or that your failure at 25c-50c was due to bad luck. Two weeks is not enough time to gauge how good or bad a player you are. Second, you can't let two days of losing send you off the deep end. Swings, attributable only to bad luck, can be much more severe than that. You need to accept that they will happen and learn to deal with them. There are numerous threads here on the subject. Third, get an understanding of bankroll requirements. You didn't say how big your bankroll was, but it's possible that you may be playing on a short bankroll, and thus in danger of losing all of it no matter how good you are. The standard rule for bankroll size is 300 big blinds -- and that's for limit poker. I don't play NL cash games, but I can only assume the swings are greater. Fourth, have you considered limit poker? Your financial goals for poker seem to be (a) steady income, and (b) minimizing loss. If so, limit is probably better than no-limit. If you are a capable limit player, you should be able to grind out your $5/hr playing $2-$4 online. Not to mention that mastering limit will make you a better NL player, as CTBob said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1941 | From: south Florida | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged | Randy2310 Member Member # 2550 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 07:38 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lastly, I don't think I'm god's gift to poker, but I do believe I'm better than almost anybody at the tables (the level I play at). Don't you tend to think the same way? Why would you sit down at a table when you know you are the inferior player? It makes no sense to me. Sure, somebody make get the best of me every now and then, but I'll get them in the long run. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're right, I wouldn't sit down at a table where I was inferior. But I'd rather use the term "smarter" than superior. I've sat at a game where I was better than some, and those that I judged to be more skillful than me were still beatable with smart observation/play. Did they win against me? Yes, some hands they did, but I tried t

o learn from those hands. Did I win pots off of them? Yes I did, and some of those pots were very satisfying whether they helped generate a big pot or it was heads up. You will have positive results in the long run over weak or recreational players. The biggest pitfall to you though is they have strength in numbers, and you must be wary of that. While you can beat 1 or 2 no foldem players, can you handle 3 or 4 or as many as 5 at one table? or in a SnG? If you'd like to contact me to discuss more or play online my yahoo ID is Randy2310, or my AIM is BNLrawks23 I'm playing in the 7:15pm limit holdem $30 buy in tournement at the Tropicana in AC tomorrow night, I'll let you know how I do. Plus I'll be on the forums a bit tonight, I promised Adam from dealerbuttons.com I would post his awesome work he's done for me eventually along with my custom built poker table :-) [ 05-05-2004, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Randy2310 ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 199 | From: NJ | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Randy2310 Member Member # 2550 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 07:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary also has a good point. Try a little limit for a bit, there is .05 & .10 which should fit you nicely and if you want to try a conservative grind at .25 & .50 that may work for you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 199 | From: NJ | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Jeanie Member Member # 3411 Member Rated: posted 05-05-2004 09:20 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As I said, I'm in college, so every little bit helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Poker isn't going to help you pay your way through college. If this money is important and you need it for college then you shouldn't be playing with it. Too many college students make that mistake and wind up losing their college money. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't believe you need $1000 to play NL at the .10/.25 NL tables. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, you're WRONG. 500 times the BB is the standard amount you're supposed to have. That way you can take hits and still have the money to make your roll back to where it was. There's no shame in moving down in limits. Don't let your ego get in the way. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To me, that just seems a little too much, I'd probably bump up the stakes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moving up in stakes wont improve your play or your losses. I made the mistake of playing 10/20 with a bankroll of 2100 and went broke. Well almost broke. It took me only a few days to drop 3000 dollars. I had to work my way back up from just 500 dollars. I play for a living and I had no problem taking my arse back down to 3-6 to build my bankroll back up. We all learn from mistakes and you'll have to learn too. If going broke is a problem for you them you shouldn't "gamble". Gambling is what 90 percent of the people who play poker do. You're putting your money at risk and you have to accept the fact you can lose it. Good luck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3449 | From: xo*Kisses*xo@PokerStars | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | Sebastes Member Member # 3766 Rate Member posted 05-06-2004 05:42 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shivvy, welcome to online poker. im coming out on your side. ive played a year now initially staked by my site in freerolls. i can go weeks cashing out 100 every single day working from a bankroll of under 1k playing no higher than .50/1 NL I still hump my crap job. It reminds me why i want to win. Still AS a winning player I know i have to deal with swings as much as 300 daily sometimes and occasional complete bust. I just dont let it get to me. if your bankroll is 200 and you are as smart as you think you can dominate the online game dont let anyone tell you different. i would suggest .10/20 6 seaters, easy money NL. dont play fixed, fixed is a complete waste of your strong mind and apparently hand selection. Your education is only gonna make you a stronger player. good luck!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 45 | From: Nanaimo | Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged | hop Junior Member Member # 3770 Rate Member posted 05-06-2004 07:08 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shivvy, IMHO your play in both hands were incorrect. In the first hand, you should have gone all-in on the turn. Clearly he was probably on a flush draw. By going all-in, you offer him wrong odds to call you with his draw. If he is a good player, he would fold. Even if he called and hit his flush on the river, you should still congratulate yourself for making the correct play -- in the long run you will make a lot of money playing the same way. Your $2 betting on turn was a bad play because you offered him a no-brainer call. If he misses, he just lose $2. But if he makes his draw, he can put you all all-in and drag a $20+ pot. In the second hand, you should have mucked your AJ from early position. IMHO, AJ off suit is a trouble hand in NL. If you are the first one to enter the pot from MP or LP, it's ok to steal with that hand. But if you are in EP or you are playing on a loose table, forget about it. Just muck your AJ, it will probably *save* your money in the long run. Think about it, when you play AJ and get action from another (normal) player, what kind of cards does he have? If he has AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK or AQ, then you are a big underdog. If he has a pair TT or lower, you are a small underdog (besides if an A falls and he doesn't hit his set, he can get away cheaply). You are in good shape only when he plays AT, KJ or QJ. When you combine all these possibilities, your AJ is clearly NOT a good hand to begin with. Trust me, I have learned this lesson the hard way. AJ off suit is a good hand in limit, but a hand to avoid in NL. Notice AK is far superior than AJ because with AK you are even money with QQ, JJ, and dominate AQ and AJ. With AJ, you dominate few and are dominated by a lot of hands. Just my 2 cents, hope it helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2 | Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged | Jeanie Member Member # 3411 Member Rated: posted 05-06-2004 07:44 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dont play fixed, fixed is a complete waste of your strong mind and apparently hand selection -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some would argue that fixed is a harder game to win at. Some of the great minds of poker play fixed limits. Playing no-limit doesn't make your mind any stronger. It's just another form of play with more risks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posts: 3449 | From: xo*Kisses*xo@PokerStars | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | gambleholic Member Member # 1258 Member Rated: posted 05-06-2004 10:27 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Um you better learn that at NL very few players bluff and if they do they do it alot and will get burned large at some point during the session. Infact most of the winning players at NL wait for birds who think they know how to play and bluff alot. The best NL players semi-bluff, ie bet into draws. Then they pause and haw and slow bet their nut hand and get paid off by idiots who try and get them to fold by over betting garbage or stone cold try and bluff the players. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1104 | From: Toronto,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | shivvyman Member Member # 3365 Rate Member posted 05-06-2004 10:37 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think it's pretty obvious I misplayed one hand severely, but as for the AJ hand, well I will probably play the same way again, and that is just me. In the long run, how many times is somebody going to have that Q? I'm not saying I will never lay down AJ, but I'm certainly not going to shy away from the hand. Now for an update. I still got some more action in me tonight, but I'll tell you how the day has gone so far. First, I sat down this morning at the .10/.25NL tables. This really hurt my pride, dropping down limits, but you gotta do what you gotta do. If anything, I just needed a little confidence before stepping up in the limits. I played for 3 straight hours. During this time I got AA six times! This sounds great and all, but as we have all found out, this hand just leads to trouble. Needless to say, I raised no less then 6 times the Big blind. If I got 1 caller (which I did twice), I went all-in after the flop. Good thing is, I won all six times I had aces, bad thing is, I didn't win much. Besides my stream of pocket aces, I received pretty average cards through the rest of my time. I played tight and aggressive to protect my hand. Unfortunately, it just seemed like I couldn't get any action from anybody. Everytime I had a monster, I'd do everything to get a bet, but everyone usually folded or called my small bets. In the end, I finished up for the session, but I was a little dissapointed by the total. However, I do know I played solid poker and I will eventually get some callers on my monster hands. Overall, I was pretty pleased not to do anything stupid and to make a little money while getting back into the swing of things. After class, I came back and sat down at the .25/.50 NL tables. Things started off a little shaky, I had top pair and a good kicker several times, yet I kept on getting rereaised. One time, I especially felt I was getting hustled by a certain individual, but I layed the hand down. I was down a couple of bucks after 20 minutes and then this little hand came along. 10s Js was dealt to me on the button. Normall I don't play these hands unless I'm on the button or unless there are not too many people in the hand. Everybody folded up to me and I called. The SB blind called as well after me. The Flop came 4 6 J, all of a different suit. The SB raises .50, BB folds, I reraise to 1.00. (This guy in the SB is the guy I feel hustled me before). He doesn't even waste a second and he re-raises me another 4.50. I take a look at the board, I'm having a hard time reading him for jacks. If he had a J and a better kicker he would have raised pre-flop. This guy had really been pushing people around. I'm thinking he has something pretty crappy, I've got him on a low pair at best. I decide to put him to the test. I go ahead and raise all-in. He was worth $22 before we got into this mess. He thinks for a good long time, I'm sitting back sweating it out, the more he thinks, the more I start to wonder if I did something wrong. He ends up calling after what seems to be eternity. The turn brings a 5 and then the river an Ace. Our cards flip up. He has 5 7. I rake in the pot. I kind of take a step back and realize what happened, it took me a couple of seconds to see that he was merely on an open-ended staight. After that $42.00 pot, the table basically breaks up in the next five minutes and I gladly take my winnings and leave as well. I still am having a hard time seeing how anybody could throw 20 bucks on a straight draw, he basically had 8 outs. That is basically the story for the day. I plan on playing a little more tonight and I'll post the details. I'm starting to come more and more to the conclusion that it's not what you do when you are getting good hands, its about what you do when the hands aren't coming and the action isn't coming. I spent a good 3 hours grinding it out and not seeing hardly any action. I made a whopping $7. Good for a little over $2 an hour, not nearly the $6 I was hoping for. However, I realize I'm bound to hit my big hand some where down the road, and I hit it later in the day. With that little pot, My avg. bumped up to around $8 for the day. Now obviously, this fluctuates, but its nice to see things pay off. Anyway, that is all for now. I'll post details of what I hope is a successfull night. [ 05-06-2004, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: shivvyman ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 373 | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 05-06-2004 10:46 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by shivvyman: First, yes my bankroll was small. I only threw $50 in there and then I received another $25 for the bonus. After almost around 30-35 hours of play, it was around $225. Obviously, this is chunk change to most of you, but to me it was worth a little something. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The ammounts don't really come into consideration here, if you were a millionare would you jump in playing $1000/$2000. Always play within your means no matter what they are and also within your capabilities, experience is everything in this game and you learn everytime you play, you self control will improve your instincts will sharpen and your confidence will be smashed to pieces, you will find your best possible online game only through experience. Just keep at low limit games until you build steadily back upto your desired bankroll for higher games, if it takes a week a month a year, it dosen't matter. What matters is that you get better, the stakes will increase gradually till your comfortable at a limit you think you belong at. good luck ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | londonace Member Member # 3404 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 07:32 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shivvyman you say you have only been playing online for a few weeks but that you have had other experience of playing NL Hold'em before this, just wondering what experience you've had? I want to offer you some advice but please don't take it as me preaching or insulting you in anyway, it's just that you seem to be heading very much the same way I almost went after I had a bit of success when I first started. You seem very sure of your ability but you need to understand that rather than entering a table and thinking you are superior to every player there, you need to be learning constantly. Even if you are better than them there are still tons of things you can learn about your own game and ways in which it could be improved. Poker is never as simple as the 2 cards in your hand, you need to be playing the other people on the table not just your cards. The skill levels of the people your up against will change vastly as your go up in stakes and you'll find that you'll need to add a few new dimensions to your game other than just waiting for premium hands in position. This is undoubtably the best tactic for small stakes tables but as you go increase the stakes you can be sure people will be trying to put a lot more moves on you and your game will have to adapt with every session. I learn a lot of things through this forum, and obviously books will help, but if you want to add a few new tricks to your game I would invest in buying something like the first season of the WPT on DVD. You can study every conceivable style of play on here and then try to master as many as you can. This was the best investment I made as its shown me new tactics which allow me to change gear whenever I need to.

I hope you keep winning as the stakes increase, just remember, the most dangerous thing you can do is believe you're own hype, that could cost you your bankroll one day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 186 | From: London, England | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged | ace-kikn Junior Member Member # 3776 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 11:46 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- whoever the person was who said "dont ever play poker with scared money" was RIGHT ON THE MARK! I do this for a living, as stated in my post on "making an online living" and if you are worried about losing and becoming depressed over losing 1/3 of your bankroll its time to call it quits..... you can NOT lose sight of what made you play this game to begin with and that is the love for the game "good and bad" I dont see that you got Outplayed but you did say you werent "thinking" flush draw and with 2 hearts on the board on online poker...you better damned sure be thinking flush lol and AJ is a good hand, but again, online poker is a whole lot different then a real sit down game.... ALWAYS assume that other player has the better hand, ALWAYS calculate your pot odds...and always be aware of the flop and the possibility that the person your playing will play a 5 3 off suit and catch a straight...especially on a low limit table where blinds are 50 cents..... What *I* do is play 15-30$ tables mostly and make a pretty good living doing it.... the reason i will not even bother with low limit is for that very reason.... id be more likely to fill in my small blind with a quarter holding 5 7 off then i would to fill it in with 10 bucks......catch my drift? You can not allow yourself to become depressed and constantly think about it because at that point you are on tilt before you even sit down and will continue to err on the side of stupidity lol saying you are a great player is wonderfully confident, but EVERY good player knows that there is someone better out there. Just my poker playing opinion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 3 | From: allensville | Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged | CTBob Member Member # 2546 posted 05-07-2004 12:18 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You may not think you need $1000 to play .10/.25 NL, but you are kidding yourself if you think $250 is adequate. You might be fine, but you are in a dangerous position. You can blow that $250 very quickly at NL. My worst NL loss was five buy-ins, at .1/.25 that's half of your bankroll, lost over a six hour period. A few rough days and you could be broke. The 200-300BB bank roll rule applies only to limit poker. I have lost 300BB on one hand!!! I wouldn't feel comfortable with less than 20 buy-ins if I were just starting out at no limit. I don't ever want to put myself in a position where I am near broke. I just couldn't play my best in that case. Obviously, the better you are, the less bankroll you will need. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2708 | From: Ansonia,CT,USA | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | gambleholic Member Member # 1258 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 04:59 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have lost 5 buy-ins at party one day and only 1 was a stupid call QQ all in pre-flop on a guy who I didn't know(it was my first hand on the table I put him on AK). The other losses were to morons who were willing to go all in on brick boards to catch their bullet against my monster. Crap like that happens all the time at Party 25 NL......... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1104 | From: Toronto,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | Pegasus Member Member # 2716 Rate Member posted 05-09-2004 06:11 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by shivvyman: During this time I got AA six times! This sounds great and all, but as we have all found out, this hand just leads to trouble. Needless to say, I raised no less then 6 times the Big blind. If I got 1 caller (which I did twice), I went all-in after the flop. Good thing is, I won all six times I had aces, bad thing is, I didn't win much. Besides my stream of pocket aces, I received pretty average cards through the rest of my time. I played tight and aggressive to protect my hand. 10s Js was dealt to me on the button. Normally I don't play these hands unless I'm on the button or unless there are not too many people in the hand. Everybody folded up to me and I called. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, I just read through your posts. I'm not going to comment much on your original 2 hands, but I'll say that AJ is definetely a dangerous hand that should be played cautiously. Regarding you're play with AA times. First of all, you will rarely win huge pots with AA. Having 2/4 Aces really kills the deck. Secondly, pushing all in immediately after the flop isn't going to maximize your profit. A pot sized bet is usually sufficient in most situations unless perhaps a board is showing a straight/flush draw. Lastly, I don't agree with your thinking with 10Js. Calling on the button was fine, but 10Js is the type of hand you want multiple callers. Any medium suited connector, especially 10J is a great hand to play when there is no raise preflop and there are a lot of callers. The point of playing a suited connector is to pull in a big pot with a lot of callers not one or two. On a side note. The guy that you thought was "hustling" you. You shouldn't be so suprised he's on a straight draw. The blinds can have anything in that situation Was watching a tournament at Party Poker and it was one of the bigger ones (single table not multi table) so big for regular single table tourneys. $200 buy in (+$15), was just watching it to see how some of these guys where playing at the higher stake tournaments. Watched this hand and after looking it over it just made no sense to me, why someone would play this and lose so much on a hand like this, specially at these stakes. Here it is, tell me what you think about this hand and the way it was played. For the record I'm talking about manduca and when looking at the hand don't forget to check out the blinds and his chip stack compared to others. ***** Hand History for Game 580930549 ***** Table Table 11131 (Real Money) Seat 4 is the button Total number of players : 6 Seat 1: TeddyKGB69 ( $1438 ) Seat 2: signiasam ( $1343 ) Seat 3: visionsguy ( $2384 ) Seat 4: s_stone ( $1290 ) Seat 5:

rolex100 ( $1285 ) Seat 8: manduca ( $2260 ) Trny:3571548 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) ** Dealing down cards ** TeddyKGB69 folds. signiasam folds. visionsguy folds. s_stone folds. rolex100 calls [50]. manduca checks. ** Dealing Flop ** [ 4d, Td, 9c ] rolex100 bets [150]. manduca calls [150]. ** Dealing Turn ** [ 3s ] rolex100 bets [425]. manduca calls [425]. ** Dealing River ** [ Ks ] rolex100 is all-In. manduca calls [610]. rolex100 shows [ 9s, Ts ] two pairs, tens and nines. manduca shows [ 8d, Tc ] a pair of tens. rolex100 wins 2570 chips from the main pot with two pairs, tens and nines. Maybe it was just me I don't know but the way he played this and with such a bad hand and of course him not being forced to because of chip stack made no sense to me. If you look he was second in chips and only barely behind first so there wasn't even an issue there, basically tied for 1st since it was so close. Easy well ahead in second and in very good chip position over-all. I think he lost 1285 in that hand and also was down to 975 after the hand which put him in last in chips out of the people that where still in the tourney. Of course he had 100 in the hand anyway from the BB so you could kind of say he lost 1185 I guess and the first 150 bet could have been excused, so 250 is understandable a little bit IMO but once the 425 bet came down that's where he really messed up and where he should have folded at and saved his self 1035 in chips. Why would you call 425 after the turn with 8d, 10c in your hand and 4d, Td, 9c and 3s on the board? I know you got top pair but your in good chip position and this guy isn't throwing all his money in there for no reason and (even though I'm not sure the difference skill wise) your in the $200 buy in tournies which I would think would be some tough/smart players there. Sorry for the long post but just curious what anyone else thinks about this play and if anyone else would have did the same, I wouldn't but I don't pretend to be an expert so that's why I ask, maybe I'm just wrong and it wasn't "that" bad of a play??? Thanks and sorry for the long post. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 84 | From: Boone, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | Sebastes Member Member # 3766 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 05:54 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- why do you aggrevate yourself trying to figure this hand out? You ever hear of bluffing? I make a fortune doing it maybe the guy thought his tens were good thats all there is to it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 45 | From: Nanaimo | Registered: May 2004 | IP: Logged | Siohmy Member Member # 2356 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 07:12 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- manduca looks like he put rolex on a possible flush/straight draw. I would always be a bit wary of someone limping in the SB heads up as it could indicate slowplaying a monster (BB should really have raised to see where he was at). If he had a pocket pair (other than AA or possibly KK) or something like AT or KT even down to JT he often would have raised pre-flop so rolex is unlikely to have trips or ten with a big kicker. The turn was a real blank not completing either straight or flush possibilities and he may have looked at the pot sized bet as another attempt to steal the pot on a semi-bluff. Having said that (and by the river manduca was pretty much pot committed) I am of the firm belief that you should not generally call off your chips. If manduca was basically going to the wire with his ten (on his evident belief he had the best hand) he may as well have raised all-in on the turn and put rolex to a decision. He may have read the fact that the short stack did not go all-in on the turn as a sign of weakness but any player whose committed half their stack to the pot against the 2nd chip leader is going to a) have a hand and b) not go anywhere. Looks to me that rolex milked manduca very nicely. As to whether he should have called it to the river. On paper, evidently no, but you cannot be sure how this game unfolded.

rolex may have been bluffing at a lot of pots, manduca may have thought he got a betting pattern tell, rolex may have shown willingness to fold in the face of a bluff should a scare card fall, manduca may have been on tilt. Plus on top of all that you are, perhaps incorrectly, assuming everyone playing a $200 STT are poker guru's. That assumtion in itself may not be acurate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 900 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | kamrann Member Member # 1069 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 11:08 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with you cobra - given the information we have it wasn't a sensible play. But as Siohmy says at the end, it's by no means baffling - he's probably just a bad player. Just because the buyin is $200 does not mean the players are great. True overall the standard is no doubt a little higher than in a $10 game, but theres plently of bad players with lots of money who player higher because they can afford to, and also disillusioned players who play there because they think they're better than they are. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 556 | From: London, UK | Registered: Jul 2002 | IP: Logged | wasntme Member Member # 2436 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 04:29 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As someone else stated why are you even concerned about it? None of know the players involved so we dont know what they are thinking. But, I really dont find this hand baffling. Manduca flopped top pair and he thought it was good. End of story. In hindsight it ends up being a very poor play on his part. But maybe he had a read on the player and thought he was bluffing, again, we dont know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 430 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | Siohmy Member Member # 2356 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 06:28 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suspect, maybe, that cobrasnake would like an insight to a higher limit of poker that he might just play one day. I don't think this is necessarily an irrelevant question to ask. True, we are picking an isolated case and may not represent a typical high limit game but he was curious as to whether this was a fair example of play at that level. [ 05-07-2004, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Siohmy ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 900 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 05-07-2004 06:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone else notice that TeddyKGB was in the game. I thought he gave up online poker. Guess he just switched to high end SNGs. Teddy - whats the story? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2199 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | cobrasnake44 Member Member # 1279 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 07:18 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Siohmy: I suspect, maybe, that cobrasnake would like an insight to a higher limit of poker that he might just play one day. I don't think this is necessarily an irrelevant question to ask. True, we are picking an isolated case and may not represent a typical high limit game but he was curious as to whether this was a fair example of play at that level. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First I would just like to respond to this, and Siohmy is pretty much correct just looking for any feedback and to see if anyone else might have played it the same way. For anyone that is wondering, this hand is not bothering me and I could care less how other players play there cards but sometimes you get curious and want to know why they play them this way or that way...etc I always thought that was part of the learning process and a way of getting better. Also it was a little late when I posted this and I was getting ready to go to bed so I'm not even sure I worded everything correctly or if what I said made sense for that matter...lol (never double checked it) Anyway it was no biggie and I had some free time on my hands so figured why not? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 84 | From: Boone, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | cobrasnake44 Member Member # 1279 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 07:30 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now to reply to the people that are saying it's hard to say with out knowing how rolex was playing his cards before that hand...etc I watched most of it from close to the beginning of the tournament. Rolex was playing pretty solid IMO and fairly tight, if he did just call he would see the flop and either hit or not hit and run or slow playing something (which I don't think he did to much but possible on that hand). He was not buying pots and if he did try to he wouldn't try to hard, mainly throw 100 out there and see if the guy would fold if not he backs off and basically gives the pot away (if you showed that you wanted it, bet and he folds...etc). So maybe I'm not as good a player as manduca and he may have read him different but I sure didn't see it. Plus rolex even though he had low chip total was only about 150 out of 3rd at that time. Like I said though the hand is no big deal to me, didn't mean to post it like I cared what manduca did just posted to see what others might think about his play and maybe there play in that same spot. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 84 | From: Boone, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | cobrasnake44 Member Member # 1279 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 07:39 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by kamrann: I agree with you cobra

- given the information we have it wasn't a sensible play. But as Siohmy says at the end, it's by no means baffling - he's probably just a bad player. Just because the buyin is $200 does not mean the players are great. True overall the standard is no doubt a little higher than in a $10 game, but theres plently of bad players with lots of money who player higher because they can afford to, and also disillusioned players who play there because they think they're better than they are. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah I agree and understand about there being some bad players at that level but I thought he played pretty well to get to the chip position that he was in and seemed to play fairly good after that hand even though he didn't finish in the money but I think he lost on a pocket pair can't remember what it was. Either way, I think I would have been better off not making this post since it seems that it is a crime to ask a question on here about someone elses hand other than your on. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 84 | From: Boone, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | cobrasnake44 Member Member # 1279 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 07:57 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Siohmy: Plus on top of all that you are, perhaps incorrectly, assuming everyone playing a $200 STT are poker guru's. That assumtion in itself may not be acurate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well I did say that I figured there would be some tough/smart players there but honestly I do understand that there's going to be some weak players no matter where you play or no matter the amount. Could be a tourney or could be regular fixed or regular NL games and at any place on the internet no matter what there's going to be some weak and some tough players there. Now like you said though I may have over-assumed at how many of the players at that level are poker guru's but I do understand not all are and realize that the game there might not be as tough as you would think but still would have to think that it would be tougher than the $5-10 tourneys. Thanks again for the reply Siohmy, atleast you understood the point of my post...lol -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 84 | From: Boone, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | wasntme Member Member # 2436 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 08:20 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COBRA Im sorry I forgot to welcome you to the boards- welcome. This is great forum, with very nice intelligent people. Now, were not trying to give you a hard time here, we just dont think you should think about this hand that hard. It was misplayed, but that happens. I guarentee that if you watch a WPT event even then you will notice some plays once in awhile, that will leave you scratching your head. I saw Phil Hellmuth once call a big river bet with middle pair and of course he lost. So what i'm really trying to say that even at the pro level, they make some bad plays, or rather incorrect reads. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 430 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | cobrasnake44 Member Member # 1279 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 08:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by wasntme: COBRA Im sorry I forgot to welcome you to the boards- welcome. This is great forum, with very nice intelligent people. Now, were not trying to give you a hard time here, we just dont think you should think about this hand that hard. It was misplayed, but that happens. I guarentee that if you watch a WPT event even then you will notice some plays once in awhile, that will leave you scratching your head. I saw Phil Hellmuth once call a big river bet with middle pair and of course he lost. So what i'm really trying to say that even at the pro level, they make some bad plays, or rather incorrect reads. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the reply but I guess kind of my point is though, you said we just don't think you should think about it this hand that hard. I really haven't thought about it any other than in the post, so not really thinking about it just IMO was something to post and see what other people thought about the hand. I just think with the chip lead he had over everyone else except one person there's no way I would lose them all on that hand (and I watched the guy that he lost them to play before that hand and he wasn't giving his chips away...lol) Thanks again for the reply and it's no prob, I understand why you probably thought I was crazy for wondering about a hand (that was playable) that wasn't even my hand and wasn't that big of a deal. Just one more point though, I think that's another reason why I posted it, not because it was one of those hands that made no sense what so ever (because he did have top pair) but since it was a playable hand (since he had top pair) and IMO no way I do what he did with the same chip position..etc I guess makes me a little more interested on hearing some replys/thoughts about it. If he called with 2-7o than I wouldn't have posted it because it would be easy to see and say that it was crazy to play the hand and lose the chips but his hand was hands that some people will do what he did and that's why I ask people on the board what they would do in the same spot. Sorry for the long reply. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 84 | From: Boone, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | cobrasnake44 Member Member # 1279 Rate Member posted 05-07-2004 08:45 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh one more thing, thanks for welcoming me to the board but for the record I've been here since 2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 84 | From: Boone, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | wasntme Member Member # 2436 Member Rated: posted 05-07-2004 08:55 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by cobrasnake44: Oh one more thing, thanks for welcoming me to the board but for the record I've been here since 2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lol. i dont know why i welcomed you! anyways your point is also well taken
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