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So I get this call today Just realized this is the wrong forum for this, so if someone wants to move it that's cool. Anyway I'm going to leave it as is otherwise so people don't end up clicking on a blank page. If I hear him right PokerStars.net/Italiano in the interview linked below, he seems to suggest the prohibition of internet poker site sponsorship at the WSOP is better for the game overall. He actually calls the new non-internet site sponsors "more reputable". I think this is maybe yet another case of Daniel not thinking before he speaks, but I'll let 2+2 make that judgment before I go into too long a tirade. I will say that the poker boom which increased the number of players in these tourneys exponentially, was due primarily to online poker. Furthermore if what he is implying is the quality of the competition will increase substantially without so many online satellite players participating, I not only think he's wrong, I take offense. When are these B&M dinosaurs going to get over the fact they just aren't as good anymore as the everyday internet grinders playing five times as many hands as they do, and stop being so envious?

Saying that regular corporate sponsors are better for the WSOP than online internet sites might be true in terms of how it's perceived by the non-poker and only very occasional recreational playing public .. but it sure as hell isn't going to help us get online poker back in the legal mainstream. I can already hear politicians quoting Negreanu's statement when it comes time to debate Frank's bill. "Hi son.. someone charged a vacation and $180 of lottery tickets to my credit card.." The sad part is I havent even received an email from PP. This happened at Crutchfield, but you know what, they fuckin emailed me so I could cancel it before any ill effects. Not only that they have a legal obligation to contact customers when this happens. I'm wondering if maybe it was even one of their staff members. What a half ass operation. Thanks party poker you fuckin suck P.S. anyone else having issues? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | NIN

Member Member # 2551 posted 02-16-2004 08:03 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What the hell are you talking about? How about a more readable post so we can draw some conclusions. (e.g. more background and less rambling) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2193 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly PokerStars.net/Espanol rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 02-16-2004 08:13 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by NIN: What the hell are you talking about? How about a more readable post so we can draw some conclusions. (e.g. more background and less rambling) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Someone bought a vacation with my dad's credit card which I previously used to deposit money on PP a few days ago. Basically I suspect either party got hacked or a staff member took my credit card info. I called PP and they said no one has logged into my account (it would show up as a different IP address). The other thing I was saying was I was relating a story about how several months ago I made a purchase at Crutchfield.com A few days after the purchase I received an email that they had a security breach and my credit card information was compromised. I immediately cancelled the credit card with no illegal charges having been made on it. If partypoker had been smart enough to realize a security breach and kind enough to inform me I could have cancelled this credit card before problems occurred. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | brian Member Member # 3005 Rate Member posted 02-16-2004 08:28 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $180. i doubt a professional hacker would waste his time with $180 dollars. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 48 | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 02-16-2004 09:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian - he said a vacation AND $180 in lottery tickets. I'm sure the total was well over a grand. Psu - If I was your dad, I'd be kicking your ass up one side of the house and down the other right about now. And yes, I know this isn't your fault. I have had numbers compromised in the past and it isn't fun. If the bank is worth their salt, you have nothing to worry about. But, I have never heard of this happening thru PP before. Also, If hackers compromised your number, I'm sure a great number of others would have been hit. I haven't heard anything to this effect yet. So, what you need to do is analyze how the number could have been compromised other than PP. Dinner on the town...possible violation. Drug addicted buddy with access...possible violation. Look into all avenues and see what you come up with. Best of luck and I hope they crucify the bastard who stole the number. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2193 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 02-16-2004 09:08 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by NIN: So, what you need to do is analyze how the number could have been compromised other than PP. Dinner on the town...possible violation. Drug addicted buddy with access...possible violation. Look into all avenues and see what you come up with. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only thing I came up with is if there were a virus on my computer sending everything I type to another location. I believe it was PP. Honestly, I wish it was something else because that would take me off the hook. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | bilo Member Member # 2505 Member Rated: posted 02-16-2004 09:11 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by NIN: So, what you need to do is analyze how the number could have been compromised other than PP. Dinner on the town...possible violation. Drug addicted buddy with access...possible violation. Look into all avenues and see what you come up with. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I aggree, these are much more likely than PP's server getting hacked. Another possibility is a keylogger (a program that logs everything you type and reports them to the attacker) in your computer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 809 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 02-16-2004 09:18 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Psu and Bilo - Excellent point which I didn't think about. A keylogger is a very real possibility. I currently run 2 firewalls, 1 software AND 1 hardware. And, I have a running subscription with MacAfee online to keep AV software up to date. I recommend all others do the same. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2193 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Eager Beaver Member Member # 2033 Member Rated: posted 02-16-2004 09:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm calling BS. Here are my reasons. ONE. Since when can you buy lottery tickets on a credit card? Not in FL don't know about other states. TWO Lets assume that you can buy lottery tickets on a credit card. Wouldn't you have to have the physical card? I can't see someone walking into a convenience store and saying, "I'd like 180 dollars in lottery tickets but I don't have my credit card. Here I wrote my credit card number on this napkin just punch it in for me." THREE Lotteries track when and where tickets were sold. I'm talking about draw lotteries not scratch offs. So not only would a store clerk remember somebody coming in and buying 180 dollars in lottery tickets and paying by napkin, but if the numbers hit they would have the time, place, and date of purchase. Lets see what on the ole security camera shall we? FOUR What kind of crack smoker buys lottery tickets with a stolen credit card anyhow? Hello, stolen card, you don't intend to pay for anything you purchase anyhow. It's like you already won the lottery, go buy useful crap. I'd say you got a problem. But I doubt it has anything to do with Party Poker's security. [ 02-16-2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Eager Beaver ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 420 | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | wasntme Member Member # 2436 Member Rated: posted 02-16-2004 09:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BEAVER i agree with you 100%. You can not buy lottery tickets with a CC anywhere. this sounds like nothing more than a disgruntled player at Party poker and this is his way of getting back. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 430 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | bilo Member Member # 2505 Member Rated: posted 02-16-2004 10:02 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by wasntme: BEAVER i agree with you 100%. You can not buy lottery tickets with a CC anywhere. this sounds like nothing more than a disgruntled player at Party poker and this is his way of getting back. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was skeptic about this and ran a google search. Looks like you can play online lottery with a CC. (and because this is online, you don't need the physical card, you need the number) Check out: http://www.interlotto.com/index.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 809 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 02-16-2004 10:05 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't have enough information at this time to make a strong argument. I can only give it to you from my perspective. I have used a credit card on the internet twice. The first time was the scenario I told you where my information was compromised but I was emailed in time. This time there was no warning. Unless this is a keylogging program as described then I would have to say it is an issue with PP. Again this is just what I think, I don't have any proof or anything. It seems very possible, considering it happened to Crutchfield.com If you are familiar with this company you know that they are very respected. Go ahead, visit their website, see what i'm talking about. Now you are going to say this couldn't happen to Party why, because, ohh its too big of a company? This big company that cancels tour

naments and goes down several times a week (recently)? At this point I could care less about whether you think i'm telling the truth or not. Just take what i'm saying at face value if you want. Sure, it COULD be something else. You don't have to be a tool, believe whatever you want. As far as my antivirus software, I have McAffee and Norton and run them periodically. As I am 3 hours away from the computer I signed this credit card in with, I won't know for a few days til I go home and run my virus scan programs if that is the cause. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | bilo Member Member # 2505 Member Rated: posted 02-16-2004 10:16 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by PsuBustaNut: I have used a credit card on the internet twice. The first time was the scenario I told you where my information was compromised but I was emailed in time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You used your (or your dad's) CC on the internet twice and it got compromised twice??? I used mine dozens of times and never had any problems. I think you have some sort of keylogger or other spyware. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 809 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 02-16-2004 10:43 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by bilo: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by PsuBustaNut: I have used a credit card on the internet twice. The first time was the scenario I told you where my information was compromised but I was emailed in time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You used your (or your dad's) CC on the internet twice and it got compromised twice??? I used mine dozens of times and never had any problems. I think you have some sort of keylogger or other spyware. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No no.. see I used to have my own credit card. Then I made a purchase on crutchfield. A hacker or unauthorized person gained access to their database. Not just me, but several people. The day I called they received many phone calls in response to emails they sent out to customers. The emails told the customers they had a security breach and their credit card information may have been compromised, and to call if they needed any clarification. I called, the guy just explained that yes someone had illegally gained access to the database and I should take whatever action I thought reasonable. I decided to cancel the card. So you see I had no credit card for PP so I used my dad's a few days ago. Someone made illegal purchases with the card after I made deposits. This is likely a result of either a hacker, someone on the inside, or a keylogger program. If you don't believe this shit happens just check out these stories on cnn.com: http://search.cnn.com/cnn/search?source=cnn&invocationType=search%2Ftop&sites=cnn&query=credit+card The headlines include "AOL says hackers may have stolen credit card numbers" "Hackers tap credit card info at Bibliofind" There is also a law that says if a website has credit card information, and their security is compromised, they may have to make a public statement saying their security was compromised or have to inform their customers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | PigDog Member Member # 1925 Rate Member posted 02-16-2004 11:17 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The hackers can take my CC number and do whatever they want. Maxxed out hah! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 43 | From: Australia | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged | wasntme Member Member # 2436 Member Rated: posted 02-17-2004 12:38 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ok, maybe i was a little premature with calling this story BS. I apologize. However, im still not fully understanding why you think this CC information was hacked through partypoker. A CC information can be hacked from anything, including store, gas station, restaurant etc... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 430 | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | Eager Beaver Member Member # 2033 Member Rated: posted 02-17-2004 12:47 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, Ok, But you still can't take point four away from me. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems very possible, considering it happened to Crutchfield.com If you are familiar with this company you know that they are very respected. Go ahead, visit their website, see what i'm talking about. Now you are going to say this couldn't happen to Party why, because, ohh its too big of a company? This big company that cancels tournaments and goes down several times a week (recently)? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I never disputed that Party sucks. I fully agree! quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is also a law that says if a website has credit card information, and their security is compromised, they may have to make a public statement saying their security was compromised or have to inform their customers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not familiar with the law but I will bet that it is a US law. I don't think that the law applies to whatever island Party Poker's Ohh so crappy and mismanaged servers are on! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 420 | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 02-17-2004 01:14 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/QUOTE]Not familiar with the law but I will bet that it is a US law. I don't think that the law applies to whatever island Party Poker's Ohh so crappy and mismanaged servers are on! [/QB][/QUOTE] I was thinking it might be like that. Their customer support is based in I believe India so who knows where their headquarters are, maybe also India. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | Geri_T Member Member # 2816 Rate Member posted 02-17-2004 08:17 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm so sorry to hear about the problem with your father's card. Can't he just contest the charge and have the payment's credited back to his account? We had a customers card number stolen that way and the issuing company removed the fraudulent amount from our account. I've also had to do it myself for items I paid for but were never delivered. The burden of proof then falls on the merchant and they have one year to contest the refund. I've found that Party Pokers non-computerized security is very good. While I haven't used a credit card, their verification for deposits seems to be very thorough. However any security can possibly be circumvented so you must do some things to protect yourself. One good idea is to set up a dedicated credit card and or bank account specifically for online gaming. This way you can limit the amount of money or credit which is available to a thief. Don't keep any more there than you absolutely need to. I hope that they catch this person or persons and that they pay the price for their crime. Geri -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 184 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 02-17-2004 10:25 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the sympathy. My dad was of course not too happy and my brother even had to call my house to rub it in. I

would think they will be able to catch them with how far technology has gone, video cameras in every convenience store etc. The way my dad talked he does not think he will be liable for the full amount, but only a portion if any. He isn't giving me a lot of details, I guess he is trying not to bother me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 41 | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | Geri_T Member Member # 2816 Rate Member posted 02-17-2004 10:35 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're welcome. I don't think that he should be liable for any of it as it was a fraudulent use of the card. If they want him to pay for part of it however he might want to contact Tom Martino at http://www.troubleshooter.com/ as this is the sort of thing he does. Best of luck to your father and good cards. Geri -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 184 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | brucey Member Member # 2616 Rate Member posted 02-17-2004 10:54 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ive had this problem before after vacationing in cancun...3 months after our trip someone goes on a shopping spree down in cancun and charges my account...i was not liable for any of it after contesting the charges with the cc company...your dad should not be liable for any of it... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 33 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | RoCKo Member Member # 3146 Member Rated: posted 02-17-2004 11:02 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmmm... sorry about the problems. Ive used cc for online (non-gambling) for years... no problems. Don't think I would use it for the Poker sites. Try Netteller tied to a checking account used only for gambling. Don't keep money in the account... just enough to keep it open. Only use it to deposit or withdraw cash to and from Netteller. Everything Ive heard on cc fraud is that your not totally on the hook for it. Good luck. RoCKo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 705 | From: Oregon | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | MajorCP Moderator Member # 2277 Member Rated: posted 02-17-2004 02:43 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Generally your liability if someone else fraudulently uses your credit card is limited to $50, and many issuers waive that if you report it promptly. You've had some amazingly bad luck to have this happen twice in so short a time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1467 | From: Phoenix AZ USA | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | PsuBustaNut Member Member # 3175 Rate Member posted 02-17-2004 05:27 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by MajorCP: Generally your liability if someone else fraudulently uses your credit card is limited to $50, and many issuers waive that if you report it promptly. You've had some amazingly bad luck to have this happen twice in so short a time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes you can imagine how angry I am. If I ever want to buy anything online I will have to get a credit card just to do it and hope nothing goes wrong. I have my checking account tied to my poker account now, good advice. I would like to inquire about any "breakthroughs" people have had in their poker game...those little "a-ha!" or "eureka" moments when things finally clicked or they decided to go for the gusto...when things finally began to pay off, if you will. My experiences: I used to play a bunch of play money tables and tourneys to get the poker experience...one day, I won an 800-person multitable tourney that put some real money into my account...that made my decision to move up to the real money games easy. That next step up has been inconsistent to say the least, as I now fight to win consistently at the low limits, while shoring up what I feel are leaks in my game. Last night, however, I feel I had another breakthrough...I decided to get crazy and play a $100 pot-limit multi...I caught some cards, picked my spots, and generally played pretty well. I managed to come in second (after having secured a chop w/ the other finalist), which has really rejuvenated the ol' bankroll. Plus, it was my first big-money win in a tourney. Do other people consider any of their experiences at the tables to be "breakthroughs," and if so, how did you go about proceeding w/ optimistic caution?!?! -DirtyDirty- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 469 | From: Atlanta, GA, United States | Registered: Mar 2003 | IP: Logged | SlushBuilder Member Member # 2756 posted 02-13-2004 01:45 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dirty- nice going...always good to see "one of our own" have a break through. As I am by no means a PRO or LAWAYS finish in the money, I can't say that these things are breakthroughs, but I have noticed that over the last three months...I have learned the following basics, that have helped me keep a float and place in some multi-tournies. Many of these are obvious, however, I now have specific experiences in my bag that I can relate to that causes me to follow them! I think many times, people know the fundamentals, but until they get Phucked on more than one occasion, they do not take them to heat. I have really begun to take these things to heart and I am muck better off because of it. They are as follows: 1. Have a goal before you enter a tourney...know why you are there and commit to it! I had this breakthrough last night. Previosuly i signed up just fr the sake of signing up. NOT ANY MORE! 2. Do not chase good money after bad! Know when you are beat and get out. 3. PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE...the cards will come if you are patient enough...they do not discriminate! 4. Pause long and hard before you go ALL IN..make certain that that is what you really want to do!!! 5. Your holding low pair and flop hits 2 or three over cards...GET OUT...don't be stubborn. There are better opportunities to stay in. Chances are you are beat! 6. DONT DRINK TOO MUCH! Unfortunately...I used to get on a little sauced up and the next thing I knew i was chasing every pot there was. 7. try not to go ALL IN with more than one person in a hand. 8. DO NOT go all in on a flush or straight draw...make sure you have a hand!

These are some of my recent breakthrough and they have helped!!!!!!!!! Good luck. Slush -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 55 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Voter Member Member # 2877 Member Rated: posted 02-13-2004 02:28 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had a breakthrough one evening when I only won four pots, but was ahead for the session. That's when it really hit home that winning poker isn't so much about winning pots, it's more about minimizing losses in between the wins (at least in the games I play). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 87 | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | MajorCP Moderator Member # 2277 Member Rated: posted 02-13-2004 03:58 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had a breakthrough similar to Voter's but would phrase it more simply - - winning players don't win the most pots, they win the most money! That perspective takes (most of) the pain out of correctly folding a pocket deuces in late position to two bets, and the flop bringing a third deuce, and similar hands. Bottom line, it is a validation of your play when you see pots you COULD have won, that you stayed out of. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1500 | From: Phoenix AZ USA | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | DirtyDirty Member Member # 1487 Member Rated: posted 02-13-2004 04:45 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent last two posts...you see this all the time, and it is one area of my game I've been trying to focus more on recently... About a week ago, I was playing in a loose low limit game...this one girl and her boyfriend kept catching nice flops and even more ridiculous turns and rivers, and had given me several early bad beats...they were each up twice their sit-in within minutes. However, while I battened down the hatches and slowly managed to work my way up to a minimal loss, they proceeded to piss away their quick earnings over the course of the night by seeing too many flops and calling too many pots. They both left the table minus their entire buy-in. The point is that really understanding the concept of "putting it in when you have the best of it, and minimizing losses in the meantime" is a crucial concept in poker. -DirtyDirty- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 469 | From: Atlanta, GA, United States | Registered: Mar 2003 | IP: Logged | gliam Member Member # 2501 Member Rated: posted 02-13-2004 05:19 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Voter: That's when it really hit home that winning poker isn't so much about winning pots, it's more about minimizing losses in between the wins (at least in the games I play). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's in in a nutshell, at least IMO. Win big, lose small. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 34 | From: AK | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | Nickel61 Junior Member Member # 2519 Rate Member posted 02-13-2004 06:57 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great posts. Just to add a little more fuel I played in a single table limit tourny last night and I literally only won 4 hands. I took third. I have found that playing tight in these tourneys usually gets me at least top four. Everyone else seems to knock each other around chasing straights and flushes. Now I play big hands and play them hard. I actually seem to play exactly opposite everyone else. As the limits get higher and they tighten up I get looser. In regular low limit games I play pretty much the same. Stay away from the garbage and you dont need to win many to win big. Please note that I am by no means a pro. I just started playing last August and I took some real lumps early on. Now the bankroll grows regularly. I still have losing streaks but I work through them with more discipline. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 15 | From: Anacortes, WA, USA | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged | RobBulliT Member Member # 2211 Member Rated: posted 02-14-2004 01:23 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good post and interesting replies! I guess the only break or "aha" experience I've had so far is that u can play really thight in multi-tourneys and do just fine. I stopped playing hands like A,J K,Q K,J J,T because I noticed I didn't win many pots with those hands. I also started to play my hands more agressive then I used to do. Stopped slowplaying two pair and three of a kind. Because I just trapped myself with those slowplays. U don't have to win that many pots to go far in a tourney. I played in a tourney a while ago where I won 2-3 big pots early on and along with some blind stealing that was enough for me to make it to the money. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE...the cards will come if you are patient enough...they do not discriminate! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yup, u gotta have patience. I always tell myself that, the card will come and they USALLY do! :-) Cheers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1348 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged | Z Member Member # 2613 Member

Rated: posted 02-14-2004 06:27 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've had several major break throughs in my game, and expect them to keep on coming. And as it happens they always come in the form of discoveries, which I then implement into my game before the results start to show. I've never really had much faith in my results as being the best guideline for evaluating my game. The games I've been the most proud of has always been games where I was stuck but managed to keep my act together. This is a lot harder to do, then it is to win huge when cards are hot. But anyway. Here it is My very first break through was that I was actually able to beat the rake at 0.5-1$ When I started playing I seriously did not believe that this was possible. Obviously this turned me on, and I started reading a lot. The next major break through actually occurred at this forum, where Wavey initiated a discussion about start hand selection. The outcome of that discussion made me tighten up considerably pre-flop, which in turn allowed me to beat 2-4$ and 3-6$ consistently for the first time in my carreer. But apart from this I've had numerous aha experiences with friends, books and when evaluating specific sessions. But I still think that major break throughs is something that goes on in the mind, not at the table. At the table you see the results of these breakthroughs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1467 | From: Copenhagen, Denmark | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | SirBetsAlot Member Member # 2661 Member Rated: posted 02-14-2004 09:07 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- my major breakthough was when Z told me to loosen up @ the .50-1.00 tables... now i'l play Axs LP when people limp... also i've learned to look for passive tables where many see the flop... these tables give u very bad beats, but are easy to beat in the long run also, i had a hard time getting out w/ meteocre to good cards in low limit, now i've started laying down winners, but that doesn't fase me because i've learned winning players lay down winning hands, for example... a tight player kept betting and raising, i had KK the board was Q high, i layed it down @ the turn for him to turn over KK... i thought he had A's but i was soarly mistaken, i dunno if i should show down KK til the end when him and 2 others call down and KK doesn't improve, in low limit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 159 | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Goalzila Member Member # 3039 Member Rated: posted 02-14-2004 10:01 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thts the HARDEST thing to learn Folding winning hands. I took some real lumps for being stubborn and sticking with crap i should have folded. Now i play smarter and fold stuff and it doesnt even bother me anymore. now i am winnning a lot more -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 252 | From: Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged | evenmoney Member Member # 1091 Member Rated: posted 02-14-2004 10:32 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've had several: 1. Play more hands vs bad opponents and less vs good. 2. Play the player. 3. When you make a one pair hand on the flop, you want to get it heads up to maximize your chance of winning. You don't want an extra big bet, you want to win the pot. 4. Slowplaying is usually a mistake. 5. Use game theory and math for tough decisions. 6. If you have players left to act, you have to adjust your pot odds since someone may raise you. 7. The value of finding a good game exceeds the value of anything else you can do.(assuming you have a winning game). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1149 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged | jellyroll82 Member Member # 2357 Member Rated: posted 02-14-2004 09:20 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great posts. I also have only been playing since August, but have been profitable since then, so here are specific moments that have stuck with me: #1: My first book. It just so happens that it was Phil Helmuth's book, which was great for someone who had never read a poker book before. That book, along with being a relatively smart guy, made it so that when I finally had the balls to play for real money, I beat the rake at $1/2 and $2/4 immediately. I was also quite fortunate, I think, since Helmuth's book has glaring ommissions, important topics like, oh maybe, POSITION?!? But it is nice to get started in the online poker world when you never lose your first bankroll. #2: Every book since the first: Sklansky, Brunson, and more, frankly ever since August, if I have been reading a book, it is a poker book. Every one adds quality to my game, although with strange "adjustment periods", where I have to figure out how to adjust my own game to my book learning. Especially Brunson's book, that one screwed up my game for a while, I was bluffing way too much!! #3: Online game, I raise early with AJo. I win a pot with it, a player comments that my early raise with AJo was stupid. He was an asshole, but I analyze my play, decide it was too loose, and fold more hands like AJ A10 KQ KJ QJ, especially early, and often middle, especially to raises. #4: B&M game, I call a bet on the flop with KsQs when the flop is rainbow J73, with one spade. I hit runner runner spades, collect a pot, and the guy next to me bitches about my runner runner. I comment that I had 6 outs on the flop, with my 2 overcards. He says he had QJ, so did I really have 6 outs? He was an asshole, but he was right, and I rarely call with overcards in low limit anymore.... Notice the last 2 breakthroughs were from some know-it-all who got beat by a bad play, and couldn't keep their mouth shut. I will never understand why good players insist on educating the bad ones, thus giving away their advantage... Breakthrough #5: Adjusting my game for tournament play, which culminated in a 1st place finish in the Guaranteed $20,000 at Paradise a couple weeks ago. Not bad for only playing for 6 months. I've had enough other finishes (a 5th, 9th, and 13th) in the past 25-30ish tourneys of that size (800-1200 players) to where I don't believe this 1st was a fluke, although who knows when I'll get there again. But tourney play really seems to suit me, and after you win your first, the difference in confidence level is indescribable. However, the down-side is that ring games immediately got boring for me, unless they are short-handed, which is less boring, but not profitable yet. Has anyone else had that problem? Breakthroughs yet to come: #6 $30 tourneys are winnable, but what about $200? Is the competition tougher there? Or just more expensive? I think I will post a new topic asking that question, I really need to know. Wouldn't mind moving up to $5/10, either. #7 Gotta learn games besides Hold'Em. I don't known if I will ever get 7-Stud down, though, I really can't grasp it for some reason. #8 Learn to read people in live games. So far my experience in 95% online, and my 5% live games have stunk. I think I may have picked up on one or two "tells" in all my live games, and I know I must be missing a ton of giveaways. Probably because I focus a lot of energy on not giving away my own hands, being a newbie myself, and am afraid when I look up to pick up tells, people are much more likely to pick up things on me... #9 Figure out a way to not let losing a tourney affect my mood. When I come in 13 out of 1100, and I am still in a bad

mood, that doesn't bode well for my future happiness... I think I can stop right there. Went a little too long, maybe, but those first 5 were specific things that completely changed my game or my attitude about poker, and the 4 "future breakthroughs" are the things that I bet better and more experienced players would list as breakthroughs they have made to become better poker players. [ 02-14-2004, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: jellyroll82 ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 191 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | jumpstreet Junior Member Member # 3198 Rate Member posted 02-16-2004 11:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have just started this game, playing for free online. I was losing in free 10/20 rooms. I was determined to get better. I bought Ken Warren's "A player's guide to texas hold em'". I now slaughter the free rooms just by using his simple rules. I have a live tournament this weekend and I'm very excited to put book to test. I guess this is my breakthough. I'll check back after the weekend. Thanks for all the advice and your honest posts. Hi Guys, I'm a winning mid limit BM player with lots of experience coming online. Figure to start at say 5-10 with plans to move up. Out of the major sites, UB, PARTY, Stars, Paradise,etc. which would you select and why. I'm not looking for lessons here, simply would appreciate knowing your reasons for playing or not playing at particular sites. Also the fastest pay systems with regard to cashing out? Comments appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 741 | From: Marshall,Tx. Harrison | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | Wildcat78 Junior Member Member # 2917 Rate Member posted 01-24-2004 02:55 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have played at 7 Sultans, Absolute Poker, Empire, Paradise, Pacific Poker, Party Poker, Planet Poker, Pokerroom. I would not play for serious money at Empire, Pacific, Party, or Planet. Personally, I don't think the HE games at Pacific, Party, or Planet are the same as in a B&M cardroom. They are more for entertainment purposes with plenty of impossible action hands being made at the river, even at the $10-20 level. 7 Sultans messed up with my sign-up bonuses. The Prima Network support is like an Artificial Intelligence help system. I am pretty sure that you're chatting with a computer and not a human when you use the online help feature. They never did straighten it out. Absolute Poker and Pokerroom are my choices. Both have excellent customer support. If I had to choose one, I would pick Pokerroom. I want to know where the players are from when I am playing online. I want to be able to see the hand history without leaving the game. I also want to see the unshown called hands at the river. (It is hard to believe that some of the sites don't do this... it makes it too easy for collusion. As for payouts, Pokerroom has done the best for me. I use PrePaidATM. It is a good service. I have started using Neteller for the sites that don't take PrePaidATM. Pokerroom with PrePaidATM is certainly one of the fastest for cashouts. The funds will be in the PrePaid account the next business day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2 | From: Plymouth | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Z Member Member # 2613 Member Rated: posted 01-24-2004 04:41 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Partypoker Reasons to play: Lots of tables to chose from, lots of fish, Games generally on the loose and passive side, major multitable tourneys available Reasons not to play: Their software is not state of the art, though it sure is working alright these days, you like to play tighter games (though at 5-10 partys games are usually reasonably tight) Rating: **** UltimateBet UltimateBet seems tight and aggressive at all limits. And their software is a tad on the slow side. Table selection is somewhat limited outside of the peak hours.The site is OK, but on all issues I can find better opportunities elsewhere. Rating: ** Pokerstars Best software out there period! And I like their multis very much. Opposition is tough. Not that all players are especially tight but most are very aggressive. Table selection can be limited at times, but that is the case everywhere except Party. Rating: ***** Paradise poker Software is very nice and looking quite a bit like Stars. It's a long time since I've played there, but as I remember it games are tight, and I prefer more fish at the table then they can provide. Finally I think they have not enough promotions compared to their competitors, and those they do, are usually of a natur I don't like (100.000 hand etc.) Rating: *** Intercasino Just don't play there. Their suppirt is lousy and their program takes so much computer power that everything will go in slow motion. Rating: * Pacific poker This place is insane. Their software is running quite slow, and you only seem to be able to play 1 table at a time there. On the other hand these games are as loose as the play money tables at most limits. This is no foldem holdem at its best. Nevertheless I have some reservations on their shuffle (not based on any physical evidence, but it just doesn't feel like all other sites I've tried). Furthermore their customer support is not very great. Took them 3 days to cash out to my neteller account, and they declined a bug report from one of my friends saying that he didn't understand the all-in conceot, when it was quite obvious that the pot was played as all-in despite the two players not having the same amount in there (tournney play that was). This tells me that they don't have a clue. So there are certainly pros and cons. Rating: *** Based on what I know of your style from your many posts here I think Pokerstars or Partypoker should be your first choice. The only place you'll find a no foldem game at 5-10$ on a regular basis is Pacific. Good luck with it. [ 01-24-2004, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: Z ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1504 | From: Copenhagen, Denmark | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | NIN Member Member # 2551 posted 01-24-2004 07:02 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent topic and replies. Here is my take on things... Pacific - This place drives me insane. You will see 50%+ seeing the flop at all levels of play. The software is slow. Payouts are slow. I currently have an account open there for one reason, they gave me a bonus and won't let me cash out until I fulfill the terms. Only problem is I never know how far I have to go since there is no convient way to check your bonus accrual status. There are problems with their website as well. UB - I like the interface and play is fast. Play is very T&A at all levels including 50c/$1. I have seen more fish lately and it seems to be playing a little more like Paradise (also T&A). I am currently down money at this site. It is not easy money. Paradise - another T&A site starting at 1/2 and sometimes 50c/$1 depending on the day. I had a nice run up over a couple of weeks a few weeks back. But, it has all trickled back recently. I am currently down a few bucks at this site as well. It is not an easy money site but I like playing here. Party - This is an easy money site if you can handle the fish. I can't so I don't play here much. I was up about $200 in one week playing 1/2 and lost a lot of it back to bad beats on the river. I cashed out with my deposit bonus and haven't been back since. I am thinking about giving it another try though. Cashouts are VERY fast...<18 hours for me. Good luck in finding a site you enjoy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2228 | From: See the warlords of a heavenly rank, and know that war is the will of god. | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Jimmyjohn Member Member # 1262 Member Rated: posted 01-24-2004 08:45 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Nuts.....

I have only played two sites, Paradise and Party Poker. I have time to write this because Party is down right this minute, but this is the first time I have experienced this. I go with Partypoker because it is the largest of them all. This means table selection is going to be best. This it becoming more and more important to me. When I first started I would not watch a game before playing in it. After a few hands I would see 70-90% seeing the flop with 3-6 still in on the river. This is too much of a crap shoot. You might as well be playing the slots. In fact, the slots might be a better deal!!!! There is something about online that you don't have in live casino play. Other than the chat feature, you cannot verbally interact. Bad players do not have to suffer the ignominy of getting up and walking away from a table without the financial means of buying back in. You will see the worst of poker being played at all levels. There are people out there who have so much money they don't care whether they lose or not. You will also be up against people who will not let you leave with very much of their money. Be extra careful about the individual game you enter. The only way you can prequalify a game is by pot size at PartyPoker. They do not post a % seeing the flop. You must understand that the peripheral stats furnished by online sites is not 100% accurate. They are not going to spend time and resources on the frills. But if there are two $5/$10 games going on with an average pot of $35 on one and $60 on the other, you can bet the $60 game is much looser. Let me encourage you to learn how to use the site you choose first. Get in a low limit game for chickenfeed, and learn how to have a second game up and watch it for a while. You are going to see bigger rollercoaster rides online than you see at Hollywood!!! If you want some one on one help after you get started, email me at jhd_123@yahoo.com. I haven't played for years like you, but I know and love the game. I am not a computer whiz, and I remember all the frustrations of getting started and will help you in any way I can. All the best, Jimmyjohn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1096 | From: Victoria, Texas | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | racer23 Member Member # 2659 Rate Member posted 01-24-2004 01:49 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't find Pacific slow at all (I use the client side install), and since they added the tourneys there have been lots more people coming, making the games more competitive, too bad for me. Their payouts are slow and I made a total of 5 bug reports, most of which seem fixed, but they wouldn't even give me a small credit. I have to question anyone that complains about very loose games...those are the games where I make money! Give me 70+% anyday. [ 01-24-2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: racer23 ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 362 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | evenmoney Member Member # 1091 Member Rated: posted 01-24-2004 02:37 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of the sites you mention, Party has the best games by far. I was watching the 5-10 at UB this morning and found it tight aggressive in general. The problem is that Party also has the worst support online. The other problem is that all the sites you mention are pokertracker friendly. Pokertracker(or is it pokerstat?) is a program that tracks the statistics of your play as well as your opponents. Savy users could know what situation you will fold based on the numbers and bet or raise with any two cards for profit. But fortunately I would guess that less than 5% of the players use pokertracker (or pokerstat). If you plan to play at the sites you mention, you should get it. I have found that the smaller sites and sites that open often have unusally good games as well as bonuses and jackpots. Intercasinopoker.com is giving away 15 bucks for being dealt poket kings(this weekend)40 to play 250 hands,500 if you hit a royal(5-10 and up) and a bad beat jackpot. Play 5 hours tomorrow and the break even ev is close to 14/hr in just one game. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1149 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged | Z Member Member # 2613 Member Rated: posted 01-24-2004 03:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll repeat what I've said above. Intercasino is the worst online experience I've encountered so far. If you can live with 20-30 hands per hour go ahead. Furthermore I don't really think that bonusses add up to that much for a 5-10 player. It only made up 5% of my winnings last year, and I mostly played 2-4$!!! Table selection is worth much more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1504 | From: Copenhagen, Denmark | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Mr. Nuts Member Member # 1239 Rate Member posted 01-24-2004 09:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to all you guys for the imput. Very informative. There seems to be a wide varity of preference and experience on the different sites, as well as some useful tips. It is obvious that one site can't be all things to all players. Of all criteria, I think game selection rates 1st with me and then support. Also, I just can't tolerate slow play at any level. I assume all these sites have a max. allowable time limit to act? Is there much variance on this? Thanks again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 741 | From: Marshall,Tx. Harrison | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | Cardster Member Member # 1543 Rate Member posted 01-24-2004 11:10 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit www.casino-rebates.com poker room section. And pick from a varity of online poker rooms with great reviews. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 105 | Registered: Apr 2003 | IP: Logged | gambleholic Member Member # 1258 Member Rated: posted 01-25-2004 01:57 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would seriously avoid party at the low limit tables(2/4 and 3/6) as their rake increase will make the games much harder to beat for good money. (I don't know if they instituted this tax to punish the rounders(i do know that the fish/senders don't give crap) That rake increase just makes the game that much harder to beat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1104 | From: Toronto,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | Z Member Member # 2613 Member Rated: posted 01-25-2004 09:43 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cardster you little S#!thead. When will you stop spamming this board. You've posted nothing but crap again and again, and I for one is fed up with it. Get a life. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1504 | From: Copenhagen, Denmark | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | racer23 Member Member # 2659 Rate Member posted 01-25-2004 10:01 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gamble, Please explain what you mean by rake increase. It looks like 5% to me, am I missing something? http://www.partypoker.com/games/how_to_play/texas_holdem.html Unless that chart means for example, they double rake a $30 pot, once for the $20 and a second time for making $30? Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 362 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | joe Member Member # 1210 Rate Member posted 01-25-2004 03:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the subject of spam this site is nothing to do with me, its written by a poster on 2+2 forums and they offer to return 15% of the rake paid at party poker, I think they get 30% and they give you half, also the articles there are very good, especialy for no-limit holdem and pot-limit omaha http://www.winningonlinepoker.com

so if you are going to play at party its probably worth registering through them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 538 | From: Brighton, UK | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged | aplayer Member Member # 2931 Rate Member posted 01-25-2004 03:43 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Im guessing most of you are from the USA, have you ever tried this site,It's a massive UK operator,i only reccomend the best so if you want to look please enter my site and click the first poker site u see, pretty sure noone has played here, its very good not too busy either and my personal favorite. http://www.heraldwebsites.com/sites/pokerandcasino.co.uk my own sites not finished yet but u can still look, bare with me it'll be worth it!! excuse the long name, come and visit it at a later date aswell when it is finishes, thanks and hope this is some help 4 u tony [ 01-25-2004, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: aplayer ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 267 | From: Cumbria UK | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | gambleholic Member Member # 1258 Member Rated: posted 01-25-2004 06:19 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The average party table is in the 30's in dollar amount, since the instituted the rake increase at Christmas they are now taxing the table an extra 50 cents a pot. This may sound measly but they are taking out of the table an extra 25 dollars an hour(assuming that 50 hands are dealt an hour). One thing if you are running hot you wont notice the tax as much but when you run cold you will as you will be stuck an extra 15 or 20 dollars that the tax has consumed. This new tax does the same thing for the 3/6 games but if the tables are medium to tight its not as repressive because the table average will fall in the 40's range. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 1104 | From: Toronto,Ontario,Canada | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | Loonatik Junior Member Member # 2902 Rate Member posted 01-26-2004 12:18 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr Nuts..I've only been playing ON-LINE for 5 months. I've played at Partypoker and Pokerstars. I came into on-line poker after several years of live play (consistant winner). However, my on-line play is suffering badly. I can't put my finger on why yet. I'm tight/aggressive style player with solid skills but just can't seem to beat the on-line game. Let me know how you fare on-line. Maybe you can find that missing factor that I just can't seem to...Yet! For me it's a toss up between Stars and Party. I like the graphics at Stars better but I like the deal "alittle" better at Party. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 23 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Mr. Nuts Member Member # 1239 Rate Member posted 01-26-2004 07:54 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Loonatik, unfortunatly I have heard the same thing form many otherwise winning bm players. It would seem that 5 months experience would have allowed you to find any leaks, incorrect stratigies, etc. What limits do you play, do you keep records, etc. email me benhart@etbu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 741 | From: Marshall,Tx. Harrison | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged | Rian Junior Member Member # 2183 Rate Member posted 01-26-2004 09:52 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My favorites are Party and Ultimate Bet although I've tried Planet, Pacific, and the Prima network as well. It sounds like Party would be the best for the games at your limit, simply because of the amount of tables to choose from. I love Ultimate Bet's software but there aren't that many different tables going at higher limits, compared to Party anyway. And the games at Ultimate Bet are definitly tougher. Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 12 | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged | joe31337 Junior Member Member # 2985 Rate Member posted 01-30-2004 12:14 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm a big fan of PartyPoker.COM. Also, the site works with the auto odds calculator tool available from www.pokerhud.com -- which is cool. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 6 | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged | Wavey Member Member # 1307 Rate Member posted 02-12-2004 08:02 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone have any opinion on Planet Poker? I assume it's quite reputable given Mike Caro's put his name to it, but what's it like there for a reasonably solid player? Reason I ask is that I won't play ring games at Party anymore. Their tournaments (both STT and MTT) are great, but after two days of horrendous bad beats, I've truly had it there. I never have such a bad run of cards anywhere as I do there. And I've played a lot of sites. Sure, I get runs of cold cards, but seldom does it last as long or as consistently without turnaround as it does there. I played for eight hours yesterday, and not once did I move upwards towards profit. That's extreme for that kind of length of play. Today's example was the final straw. Betting is capped pre-flop, I have 99, flop comes 679 rainbow. I check-raise my trips and it's capped on the flop. Turn comes T (10). No flush possible. I bet out again... I'm raised... surely this guy hasn't got T8 or J8 given the pre-flop capping that occurred?? I call... anything's possible here... and indeed this is confirmed when the river is an 8, giving a str8 board 6 to T! I doubt that someone has chased two cards for a str8 draw, back-tracking the hand as I do... but I check to be cautious and am raised. Damn. I have to call. Pot is way too big not to on the chance this guy simply had a high pair. He does have a high pair... JJ. Ouch. I spoke to the guy afterwards, and he said he thought I had TT which is why he raised me. I doubt I'd cap the flop with TT. I told him I had him beat flop and turn, and I was just unlucky (I probably would have played his hand the same as he did), but for me it's one bad beat too far on that site. (In the time I've written this, I'm on another site and won half of what I lost back already). Now, I know statistically it's just bad luck (he had two outers and the runner runner draw and got one of them - the most unlikely in this case) and I've just hit a cold spell on this particular site, but this happens (as lots have said) far too often. You can almost guarantee a flush or pair on every board, if not that there'll be four to a str8 and Ace-rag will take it down. I don't see that anywhere near as frequently anywhere else. Even playing riverjohn's rules, I still get busted over and over again. And I'm folding a lot - frequently to bluffs - to preserve things and not make any marginal calls. I know everyone says the fish will lose it to reasonable players in the end, but I don't see that day to day when Mr. Lucky sits down and in fifteen minutes wins twice what it's taken me to lose in four hours, and he's playing crap like 52o and 63s, J7o etc.

I know Z and evenmoney and others make good money there... but try as I may something conspires against me. Hence, my query on playing Planet. Are there a reasonable amount of players at all times of the day to give a good game? Apologies for this turning into a whinge. Comments, as always, welcome. W -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 958 | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged | CTBob Member Member # 2546 posted 02-12-2004 09:15 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Loonatik: Mr Nuts..I've only been playing ON-LINE for 5 months. I've played at Partypoker and Pokerstars. I came into on-line poker after several years of live play (consistant winner). However, my on-line play is suffering badly. I can't put my finger on why yet. I'm tight/aggressive style player with solid skills but just can't seem to beat the on-line game. Let me know how you fare on-line. Maybe you can find that missing factor that I just can't seem to...Yet! For me it's a toss up between Stars and Party. I like the graphics at Stars better but I like the deal "alittle" better at Party. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Join the club. I have been playing both home games and in the casino for years. I just started playing online last week at Paradise, and I actually have moved down in limits to .50/1. I thought it would be like taking candy from a baby, and boy was I wrong. I started out good, I bought in with %60 and was up to $85 within the first few hours of play. Two days later I was down to $12, then back up to $27. Yesterday I blew it all, but managed to get back up to $22 before bed. Playing at Paradise isn't as easy as I thought. My first impression is that even at these limits, I run into some better opponents than I do in B&M games at low limits. The tables seem to be aggressive, and I see a lot of preflop raises with cards like A10o K10o Q8s,Axs. It often makes it tough to call with hands that you would like to see the flop with, but not for 2 or three bets. It gets frustrating to see that you would have won the hand, and the pre-flop raiser just ends up folding because he raised with nothing. A lot of the tables I have seen have pretty small pots, so when you do have a good hand, no one wants to pay you off. I think one of the problems with online I have is that it's harder for me to put a read on an opponent since I can't see him. I also think that the constant influx of new players every few minutes makes it harder because you constantly have to adjust to new opponents. A tight table can become loose aggressive in a matter of minutes. Even at the casino, you might be playing with the same opponents for three or four hours, so you can get a longer run from your table image. Another thing I noticed is the price of the blinds when the cards are cold. At .50/1 if the table is dealing 60 hands/hr, the blinds will cost $4.50 hr if you are on a cold run of cards. In live games I don't see that many hands in an hour. I've never counted, but I'm guessing on average the casino deals maybe half that many. So after a two hour run of crap, you just lost nine big bets plus any hands you called pre-flop. [ 02-12-2004, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: CTBob ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 2708 | From: Ansonia,CT,USA | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged | Karmaisallwehave Member Member # 2366 Rate Member posted 02-15-2004 02:15 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I like to have something good to look at and has some cool features so it's ultimatebet all the way for me. Pokerstars is a distant 2nd for me. I know this is something trivial, I just can't stand some of the interfaces out there. If they would just look cool, have good features, etc. I would definitely look into theirs. I noticed Paradise Poker upgraded their software a little, still not great, it's improved though. Party Poker is the only other online poker service I've used and it comes in 4th. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 257 | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged | Shooter44 Member Member # 2746 Rate Member posted 02-15-2004 09:37 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A few points about each of the places I've played. Pokerroom.com--the first site I played at. It's fairly big, good support, decent software. If you like tournaments they have a few multis and you don't have to wait too long for a single table tourny. When I last played there a few months back all tournaments were still limit holdem. Party Poker--the biggest and the best. Plenty of games of every kind (except one--see Ultimate Bet). The pot limit Omaha is a favorite of mine. But what really sets Party apart in my opinion is the tournaments. They have more tournaments of every kine than anybody else. So many single table tournies are going all the time that the biggest problem used to be getting in before it was filled up. Now they spread several of each game at each level at once so it's not a problem. Plus they have new multis going every hour or half-hour, NL and limit Holdem, PL and Limit Omaha 8B, you name it. If you like to play tournaments Party is by far the best. Ultimate

Bet--I haven't played for money there. Just signed up and played the play money games to check out the software. The one thing they do have that no other site does as far as I know is Crazy Pinapple, both regular and HI/LO. If you want to try something different, it's worth checking out. Poker Stars--ok software, though kind of slow on my computer, medium number of players, medium number of multis, not a lot of single table tournies (be prepared to wait a while). What they do have that's different is heads up and two table heads up tournaments (play heads up, then play the winner of the other table). TotalPoker.com--this site is only about a year old, not that many players. The software is pretty good, but limited. The only games are holdem and stud and nobody plays stud-ever. So why play there? About 5% of the players are good players who have been at the site since the beginning. Another 20% or so are pretty good newer players. The rest are either newbies or just very loose/passive players. It's not unusual for 7-9 players to come in on every hand on the 2-4 tables. Interestingly a large percentage of the players are from Turkey, I think due to some tie in with a sports book site. It's not unusal for half the table to be from Ankara and Istanbul. They tend to play very loose, and will stay in to the river with a bottom pair or longshot draw. But if you selectively play good drawing hands you can win some huge pots.
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